That’s a quote from Phil Vischer, creator of VeggieTales, which opened their second movie this weekend (ranked ninth with $4.4 mil).
He has a very compelling interview in Christianity Today you should check out. Here’s the crux of this thoughts on the Christian message in movies:
Some Christian films have failed flat-out because their plot was their message when it should’ve been a subtext or a comment that a side character makes in passing. However, if your main character turns to the camera and delivers the truth of Jesus, you’ve probably lost nine-tenths of your audience in five words. It’s hard to accept that when you are a filmmaker who has decided God wants you to use filmmaking to share the gospel.The Passion was such an anomaly, you really can’t use it to learn much of anything about the nature of film. You had the most popular film actor in the world making a deeply personal work of art about a religious story. What are the odds of that happening again?
The Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings are also tough test cases. How many Narnias are there? How easy is it to come up with another Lord of the Rings? It’s not. There’s Tolkien and Lewis and then everybody else. Besides, you couldn’t write Narnia today and have it accepted by the evangelical world because [of the magic] and because in its metaphor, it effectively has a non-Christian worldview.
Now, if we go to another fantasy world, we need to find Jesus there—literally. That is why the Harry Potter books are viewed to be straight from the pit. Even if Rowling says she’s enjoying Christian themes, forget it. How do you write a Christian fantasy today? I have no idea. I don’t know that you can. I think we’ve killed it. I think we are so concerned with how oppressed our worldview is and so defensive that we’ve painted ourselves into a corner. And thus, we can’t tell the kind of stories that Lewis or Chesterton would have told to share the gospel. It’s kind of depressing, frankly.
Your thoughts on any of his thoughts?
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January 14, 2008 at 01:28
I long for a movie that would just tell the most common story, one we NEVER see on film, the story of someone getting saved. The transformative power of overcoming drug addiction or depraved lifestyles or depression or just being lost, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. It is so common, it is the greatest story any Christian can tell from their life, and these stories make the best witnessing, without preaching.
January 14, 2008 at 04:54
“How do you write a Christian fantasy today? I have no idea. I don’t know that you can. I think we’ve killed it.”
I agree, and it is rather sad. I remember reading the Lord of the Rings books back in high school (before knowing they had any sort of Christian message, as they were recommended to me by a non-believing friend) and thinking, “Wow I hope my mom isn’t mad that I’m reading these.” I thought that precisely because the books have magic, fantasy, etc. My mom was openly anti-Potter for those reasons, and it made me think I might have been reading something I shouldn’t have been. (If you’re wondering she was the one who bought me the books, she just didn’t know what they were about). But, I finished the books, picked up on the message, and am happy I did read them. The same is true for me of the Narnia and Potter books. One of the things I find astounding is that we are so afraid of the supernatural in books/films, yet we claim to believe in such things in real life. It’s hard to say you believe in spiritual warfare, for example, and at the same time decry books that that depict exactly that.
January 14, 2008 at 06:34
Unlike the Narnia and Tolkien books, the Potter books could encourage children to experiment with occult practices and teaching. That is always the danger with children’s literature; how it influences them.
Christianity has spread worldwide for almost 2000 years without the benefit of film. I’m not saying don’t produce films about Christ, just realize that your worldview may not necessarily be what is true in God’s eyes. Classics are very rare that is why they are classics.
January 14, 2008 at 08:39
It’s not up to us to strategize on how to lure people to Jesus. It is He Who calls us. It is just dumb to consciously minimize the Gospel message to get a greater audience. Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all these things will be added unto you. Commit your creative process to God and follow HIs direction and all will be well.
January 14, 2008 at 09:16
We have too many great stories in the
Bible to make up these fantasy stories.
How does a believer much less an un-beli
ever see Jesus in movies like Narnia vs.
watching Potter movies. I know there are
differences but you have to really look
for them. Most are not looking for Jesus
in these movies. We have to be clear
with our message about Jesus. We have to
do it in LOVE not condemnation. But make
the message CLEAR.
January 14, 2008 at 10:06
I LONG!!! TO see a movie about Hosea, or similar. A wayward wife who keeps getting loved and loved and forgiven by her amazing husband (a metaphor for Jesus). We desperately need to communicate the LOve of God to people, they have no idea.
January 14, 2008 at 10:53
There are many stories that share Christ. The Matrix, the Little Mermaid, One night with the King, etc. The key is to use the popular stories to make people aware of the supernatural reality that the Bible teaches, and trust the Holy Spirit to open blind eyes.
January 14, 2008 at 11:29
I tend to bristle a bit anytime someone says “X is no longer possible”. Usually, that’s an excuse to lament lazy work. “Boo, people no longer respond to the Gospel the way they used to.” Well, maybe that’s because our Gospel is shoddy, a lackluster and half-hearted attempt to communicate something that maybe we don’t even truly believe.
As with anything, Christian artists need to quit trying to make the perfect movie and just try to make an HONEST one. That’s why the Passion succeeded: when people criticized it for not showing enough of Christ’s life and work, Mel Gibson said plainly, “That’s not what the movie was about.” Instead of that brand of honesty and simplicity, many Christian artists wring their hands about what this group will think of their message or how that group might complain about the imagery.
Finally, if Christians are going to have such a problem with fantasy, don’t write for Christians. Shake the dust off your coat, walk away and write for non-believers. Non-believers frequently have much less of a problem with a message they don’t necessarily agree with if the medium is solid. Instead of preaching a conservative message to the choir, why not capture the minds and hearts of a lost world with a well-presented, yet radical, message of love and forgiveness?
January 14, 2008 at 12:21
Why must Christian message films be made for all people? Everyone in the creative arts can and should commit some or all of their work to edifying the body of believers—feeding the sheep.
The Veggie-Tales work is very clever (to an adult who knows the true story), and are safe entertainment for children. They are not an evangelistic tool or teaching tool.
It is time in the arts for work to be done that “speaks” to Christians without having the goal of reaching outside of believers.
You can tell of the love and forgiveness given to mankind thru Jesus Christ’s work on the cross and it means nothing to a fallen world that doesn’t know it needs love and forgiveness. The lost must be made aware of God’s law and expectations for Man to see how fallen they are. The Holy Spirit will convict a broken and contrite heart.
Point being, for a follower of Christ, there is no option other than bringing all their thoughts captive to the obedience of Christ. (2 Cor 10:5) All work is to be done as to the Lord; bring glory to God. Only the writers and producers of Veggie-Tales will answer to the Lord as to whether this is accomplished by their efforts.
January 14, 2008 at 12:27
Wow. I think Mr. Vishcer’s comments are very insightful and right on the money. I disagree that it would be impossible to make a Christian fantasy today, but I think it would be very, very difficult for the reasons he brings up. And I agree that this is a terrible shame. There is, in general, a dearth of really good Christian art being produced today – I have seen too many Christian movies and plays and heard too many Christian songs that are just plain mediocre if not downright bad.
January 14, 2008 at 12:31
This is a great discussion, and I admire the candor that Phil Vischer addresses the topic with, though I’m not sure I fully agree with him.
I’ve seen a lot of Christian movies over the past few years, and there are two main problems I see with most of them: 1. They are very hokey and not usually well written or done and 2. The “gospel” presentation is so watered down that it might as well not be there.
Most Christian movies try to walk a middle ground between trying not to alienate non believers with an overly Jesus focuses message, and trying to include at least a smattering of truth. That middle ground is likely due to fail in the long run. I believe it is possible to tell a very compelling tale in a movie and not compromise. Amazing Grace is a great example of this. If you haven’t seen the movie, you should rent it tonight – it’s honest, well done, and quite genuine in it’s portrayal of Wilberforce’s Christianity. Luther (www.imdb.com/title/tt0309820/)is another pretty good one (though not for children and young teens, sadly). The Nativity Story is a third example.
One other note: To suggest that the gospel is presented in movies like The Matrix and The Little Mermaid and Harry Potter is quite dangerous – the gospel is not present at all in these works and the world-view of the filmmakers is directly in opposition to the gospel. Are similar themes present in these movies? Certainly, but as John Eldredge says, we see many Gospel type themes in popular culture because those themes are part of the ultimate story, and they draw us all.
Chase (Christian web 2.0 at Faith2.com)
January 14, 2008 at 16:20
Jeffrey Overstreet, a film critic & writer & Christian, has published the first of 3 fantasy books called “Auralia’s Colors”. It’s an excellent book, and proves that fantasy can still be written. Check it out.
January 14, 2008 at 17:10
Thanks for bringing this interview up. I appreciate what Mr. Vischer has done with VeggieTales and even more what he’s done in sharing the lessons God has taught him as a result of his ambition.
I wonder, however, if he is aware of all that is happening with Christian fiction in the past few years. What would he say about the fantasy of Wayne Thomas Batson, Jeffrey Overstreet, or the story soon to release by Andrew Peterson? These are authors who write of other worlds and there is no “literal Jesus.”
Being a fantasy writer, I felt compelled to write a sort of rebuttal to his view that we have killed fantasy. It’s posted at Speculative Faith.
Becky
January 14, 2008 at 17:29
I’m writing a book of short stories about everyday people who encounter Christ in many different ways, but have a central theme of the love of God and being a part of the family of God. I have used many ideas given to me by others to bring to life a feeling that we all have seen Christ or one of his angles here on earth. Then through that contact realized that it’s the love of God we all seek and we do that by how we treat others. I’m almost over my “will anyone like it faze” and hopefully find a publisher that will see what I see. A God that loves us so much that He sends his angles and even his son to us to help us with the light that guides us to the path, which leads us home. Make as many movies as you can and just maybe one of them will catch the eye of someone who was praying for something to change their life and bring them closer to God. In God’s Grace John
January 14, 2008 at 18:17
The problem I’ve always had is placing Christian and fantasy in the same context.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
It doesn’t matter if its C.S. Lewis or a misguided JK Rowlings. We keep failing the tests of Scripture until we have no testimony for the Kingdom of God.
January 14, 2008 at 18:38
Bridge to Terabitha was by a Christian author and it was made into a movie. Christian fantasy and sci-fi can still be done.
And I agree with Jesse James’ comment. We need a film about the story of Hosea!!!
I write scripts about pornstars, prostitutes, strippers, orphans and all types of “outcasts”. Those are the kind of stories that need to be shared on film from a Christian perspective. Any other daring filmmakers out there???
http://solshine7.blogspot.com
January 15, 2008 at 01:36
Main problem here is that films are a form of art and entertainment. People go to see them to be entertained not preached at.
Subliminally, Hollywood has been preaching at us for decades without looking us straight in the eye and giving us their (lack of)gospel.
Christians are so concerned to get a message out there that they neglect the method by which it is carried.
You don’t neglect God or your beliefs but instead focus on making a GOOD FILM. If you’re a Christian and you strive to follow God your world views will naturally come out. That’s what happened with Lewis and the Narnia series. He wasn’t trying to preach. He was just trying to write a good children’s series. As a result of his world view and beliefs inadvertently Christian themes and nearly direct quotes from the Bible worked themselves in there.
If you’re going to make a movie, make a movie. If you’re going to preach a sermon, preach a sermon. Both have their place. But for the most part most (NOT ALL) Christian art down right stinks. How many B-rated end times movies are there that basically just shove a point down our throat? I went to the Christian bookstore and like 70% of the Christian movies were just some person’s view of how the world is gonna go up in flames with a blatant attempt to preach “Turn or be burned”.
And again, it HAS ITS PLACE. But if Christian art is saturated with this preach instead of entertain business it is never going to have the impact or compete with Hollywood which has, by its methods, effectively indoctrinated our society with its liberal atheists and new age views all by the art of movie.
No? Seriously. Take an intro to film class. You’ll see that the very art of making a movie is DOMINATED by subliminal messaging. It’s not a conspiracy theory. Its the BASICS of film making. You’d be blown away by what they can do and what kind of thoughts and feelings they can put into your head by proper lighting costumes or simple props placed in certain positions without you even realizing they are doing it.
This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. The whole idea of art is to instill ideas and thoughts and feelings. That is in my opinion the very purpose of art. By just walking out and preaching you’re subverting the art and its purpose and detracting from it.
What’s more moving to most people? A verse printed in plain black ink on white paper that says “Jesus Saves” or a well painted picture of Jesus on the Cross bearing the sins of the world on His back?
The picture doesn’t say Jesus saves (And I’m sure if you plastered in big bold letters through the middle of the painting it’d become trash art rather than art) but you can be sure anyone who looks at that piece of art will get the picture…no pun intended.
January 16, 2008 at 06:48
Alister McGrath delivered 2 lectures (href=”http://tinyurl.com/34xjoh) on Lewis and Tolkien stressing the need for Christians to write fiction and capture the imagination. We’ve got intellectual apologetics in great quantity and quality but we need to address the 3 objections to Christianity:
1. Boring
2. Irrelevant
3. Probably untrue
Everyone is dealing with point 3. but non-believers aren’t reading these books because of the volitional and imaginative barrier.
An for heavens sake, let’s stop publically condemning films (ala Golden Compass) which have an atheistic slant. We’re only giving them free publicity and doubling their takings!
January 17, 2008 at 10:55
I disagree. Didn’t God say, his words shall not return empty? Then his comments has also lost a tenth of it’s worth upon those ears they should have reached. Why is it, that so many feel they can expound upon the carry distance and power of the word of God?
I write children stories all bible and Christ based(which I read to my kids), and they are not boring(feedback from the children). I read them to Christian and non-Christian children. Just a thought.
January 25, 2008 at 12:30
As far as a movie based on Hosea, how about making a screed adaption of Francine Rivers’ “Redeeming Love?”