Televangelist Joel “Your Best Life Now” Osteen was the subject of a recent CBS interview that touched on his ministry, his message, and his responses to critics who claim his theology is unbiblical. The feature lets both Osteen and his critics have their say and does a good job of hitting on some of the more troubling points that get raised about Osteen’s ministry.
One of the critics interviewed toward the end of the feature is Michael Horton, who you may recognize from the White Horse Inn radio show and other worthy projects. (He’s also a seminary professor in my hometown in California. Go Escondido!) The White Horse Inn has gathered a pile of links and articles related to Osteen; worth reading. Elsewhere on the web, Michael Spencer (not a fan of Osteen) has written up his thoughts on the Osteen interview. In fact, bloggers everywhere are abuzz with chatter about Osteen in the wake of the CBS feature.
Most of the blogs and sites I’ve linked to here come down pretty hard on Osteen. What’s your take on this interview?
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October 16, 2007 at 19:15
I think it’s high time that Christians who care about correct theology start taking a hard line on Osteen, Jakes, Meyers and the likes for their preaching the prosperity gospel. I for one was pleased to hear Michael Horton calling Osteen’s “gospel” heretical. It is just that… heretical.
October 16, 2007 at 21:09
The more I experience these ‘motivational’ Christian speakers, the more I am sure that they have no true concept of Jehovah God. To think you can take step A, B, C, etc., and suddenly the Creator of the universe will grant your deep desires is truly heresy at it’s apex. God is not a problem is mathematical logic(i.e.-if, then, IF you act, say, think the right thing, THEN God is obligated to give you what to wish), He is the Omnipotent, OmniPresent, Eternal Creator of all; not some gumball machine you stick a quarter into and get a prize. Two things you can be sure of:
1-His love for His creation is everlasting, and
2-His Sovereignty is unquestionable
If people will wrap themselves around these truths, then the worship of what He does will become the worship of who He is.
October 16, 2007 at 21:15
Are you insnae!?!?!? And have you ever actually listened to Joe’s sermons regularly!?!?!? Joel is a great man of God who loves the Lord with all his heart and wants to share the joy God gives him with others. And all the Christian community can do is attack him instead of banding together against those who really threatened the family of God. Stop fighting from within and lets start fighting the forces of evil instead. Fighting against our own is exactly what satan wants us to do. If we are fighting amongst ourselves then we are not fighting against him and his influence in this world. Instead of fighting Joel, we should be helping him and others like him continue to spread the gospel to all those who will listen. The Body of Christ is made up of all different kinds of people who can reach the lost in different ways. We all work together with our strengths to bring the lost to the Lord. That is our purpose and focus. Let’s get off these petty things and start reaching the world for Christ.
October 17, 2007 at 06:37
Charlotte,
The problem is that Joel is NOT preaching the gospel. These are not petty things – fighting for the true Gospel message is not petty.
Paul could not have said it any better:
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires…” 2Tim. 4:3
I urge you to carefully listen to Osteen’s teachings. He waters down the gospel to the point that it’s nothing more than a pep talk and a man-centered presentation. He, along with the other prosperity preachers, have taken the gospel message and turned it into making God a candy dispenser.
Division within Christianity is necessary when the Gospel is at state. Look at the protestant reformation.
October 17, 2007 at 07:10
When Franklin Graham is asked the tough questions – for example – ‘Will Jews and Muslims go to hell ?’ – he doesn’t dodge it – he answers it with simplicity and absolute truth – ‘If you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, you will spend eternity in heaven – otherwise, you will spend eternity in hell – period.’ Simple and True. Joel could take a lesson from Franklin and seize the opportunity when asked this – wrapping the truth and love rather than side stepping it so as to not offend. Another note on Franklin – he’s too busy showing us how to Give, rather than telling us how to Get.
October 17, 2007 at 08:38
Charlotte,
With all due respect (and without resorting to the use of pejoratives such as “insane”), I wonder if you have really ever listened to Joel Osteen’s message, because if you have, and believe it to represent Bible Christianity, I really, really don’t know what to say to you. Joel Osteen has no more business doing what he is doing than I do doing brain surgery. The fact that he’s “positive” (whatever that means), or that he’s a nice, nice guy (which I’m sure he is) doesn’t mean that he has any business being a pastor. I prefer to think that he just really doesn’t understand the Bible’s teaching on Christian faith; the alternative is to believe that he does and willfully distorts the message. The way he uses the Bible is shameful, to say the least, though again, I think he does it in ignorance. But the fact is that while he may make for a great motivational speaker, and while he may personally be a believer in Jesus, this man is not a preacher of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And it is the calling of every Christian to discern such things. People like Michael Horton do the church a great service to point these things out.
October 17, 2007 at 09:15
I’m sure, as Charlotte says, that Joel Osteen “is a great man of God who loves the Lord with all his heart and wants to share the joy God gives him with others.” But is he doing that as a pastor, or as a Christian motivational speaker ?
October 17, 2007 at 10:03
My concern is that those of us who would, and do, disagree with this type of Gospel will find ourselves practicing some of the same tactics.
For example, Byron Pitts questions a lack of reference to God or Christ in Osteen’s new book. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been disappointed at attending some church growth seminar and/or other church related meeting where all that was mentioned this or that model. We shouldn’t assume everyone has the same motive of offering Christ. Leaders need to make sure we demonstrate our need for the Lord in every aspect of ministry—even if it runs the risk of sounding too preachy.
October 17, 2007 at 12:07
By condeming what he stands for we are fighting evil. God is not a bank, or a rich uncle. Stick to what is Biblical PERIOD!
October 17, 2007 at 12:07
Joel teaches us how to Get. Franklin Graham shows us how to Give. And which one gives the straight up answer to the heaven/hell question ? You guessed it, Franklin. If you want Gospel Lite and Prosperity – go with Joel. If you want the Truth about Eternal Life – go with Franklin. Sometimes it is hard to tell if a fabric is black or dark blue – until we hold it up next to a black fabric – then it is obvious. Same deal here.
October 17, 2007 at 12:15
Osteen on the program and elsewhere has made it clear that he isn’t particularly gifted or skilled in theology or teaching doctrine from the bible. There is a difference between unsound or heretical doctrine we ought to oppose and the unrefined, perhaps even naive doctrine that Osteen preaches. In any case, I wouldn’t consider attacking the man or the ministry to be an acceptable option.
I suggest either a) he is creating a wonderful opportunity to disciple less mature believers; those who are better informed biblically should partner up, rally and fill the need…
or b) following the council of Gamaliel, let him be, ”...for if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”
October 17, 2007 at 15:06
I have never heard one of his sermons, nor have I read any of his books. I saw him and his wife briefly on the news article. It has and still does bother me when someone who spreads the word of God and makes more money than they need. Yes it is nice to have things, but no one mentioned what all of his money is doing. Does it go to help others many times over, or is it for his and his wife’s every whim? Rick Warren and Max Lucado have given back most of what they made. Billy Graham gave back most of what he made. I don’t understand why you need all those things to tell someone about God. Friends gave me this and I would like to share it. “A regular time ande a regular place, and open bible and your heart open to God. Let God have you and let God love you. Then don’t be surprised if your heart begins to hear music you’ve never heard and your feet begin to dance as never before”. We give what we can so others may have what we have. If you’re not doing that then think about what you are doing in the name of God.
October 17, 2007 at 15:22
I watched the interview on accident. I didn’t know it was coming on and my friend had the channel on because he was watching a game earlier and fell asleep.
They talked about how Joel preaches a prosperity gospel message of his own. I don’t know if I necessarily agree. It’s just based on the principles in the Bible that talk about renewing your mind. So many lives have been changed for the better through Osteen’s ministry. I think he’s very different from prosperity gospel preachers, who just preach that God wants to give us all million dollar houses. This whole argument reminds me of Philippians 1:15-18 “It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.”
I’m not mad at people who preach Christ, as long as people are being led to Him.
October 17, 2007 at 17:07
What is wrong with preaching prosperity?, our God is a god of love,
People accuse Joel of using scripture for his own benefit, but what are all the other people doing, using scripture to bring him down. -Shame on these people for calling themselves Christians. Is this the way Jesus would respond..?
October 17, 2007 at 18:49
As far as whether Osteen preaches heresy, I don’t much care. That is between him, God, and the people who make a free choice to follow him. I don’t, for most of the reasons given above. (Charlotte, what if it turns out that Osteen IS Satan? Or that Benny Hinn is?) I too am bothered by ANYONE having such obscene wealth considering the number of people who die of starvation every day. For a pastor to flaunt it is even more obscene. On the other hand, I don’t buy Franklin Graham’s smug narcissism about heaven and hell either. Christians say what he says, but Jesus doesn’t. As I read in Matthew 25:31 to end, all kinds of people who are unaware they ever did anything for Jesus will be welcomed into the reward prepared for them from the foundation of the world, because “inasmuch as you did it for the least of these my brethren, you did it unto me.” We can bandy about what that means for grace vs. good works, etc., but that’s what Jesus said. Period. (I don’t believe that preaching prosperity gospel is what Jesus was talking about as “for the least of these my brethren.”) By the way, for in-depth expose of Osteen, and other millionaire ministries, check out http://www.trinityfi.com or http://www.wittenburgdoor.com.
October 17, 2007 at 22:04
I listen to Joel every Sunday on television and I believe he does preach the gospel. Yes, I do go to church regularly as well and graduated from a Christian university so my main source of teaching is not from Joel. I don’t get from his sermons that he is telling anyone that God is some sort of wishing well, but he does reveal the promises that God has given us and reminds us to rejoice in God who loves us. Joel is reaching the world for Christ and he encourages everyone to get in to a good Bible believing church. How can we possibly criticize him on his finances?!? We don’t know what he does with his money. We don’t know that he doesn’t give it back. Based on the size of his ministry, I am guessing that he donates a large portion of his money to ministries. As far as answering the tough questoins and the comparison between Joel and Franklin Graham is concerned, both men are established in the Kingdom of God to reach people using their personalities and style. Franklin Graham is a little more of an aggressive evangelist and Billy Graham will even attest to that as he did in his interview with Time Magazine. He also stated that he would not take the same hard line that his son chose to take with who is going to heaven and who is going to hell because truly only God knows the heart. That is a quote from Billy Graham’s interview with Time Magazine a little over a year ago when asked about Franklin’s comments.
Bottom line is we should be supporting each other in our ministries not attacking each other. And it is petty to claim that this is about teaching a wrong gospel so we must stand up and defend it because that is not a true statement. Joel Osteen has never preached anything that is heresy or blasphemy. He has always taught the gospel the way it is. He ends his sermons on a joyful note, which is also in the Bible (to be glad, read Ecclesiastes or watch Pollyana!). To attack him for being joyful in the Lord is foolish. God wants us to be joyful in Him. We need to spend more time concentrating on rejoicing in the Lord then on attacking our own.
October 18, 2007 at 05:16
I am miffed about the give me money preachers They have plenty and never gave me a penny I had a wonderful Pastor In Fl. He never lied, never sent me a give me your money letter and he was Kind and so annointed… so whats going on here? Does anyone know?
October 18, 2007 at 10:45
I find Olsteen’s message disturbing but, I think Seth may be on the right track adopting Gamaliel’s take on him. Personally I’m almost as disturbed reading Michael Horton’s article on White Horse Inn in which he calls Karl Marx a “community philosopher.” What’s that about?
October 18, 2007 at 12:38
I have read “Your Best Life Now” because the book was challenged by a Christian friend of mine. It peaked my curiosity so I went looking to find more information. I found many comments challenging the validity of his ministry. Then I went to the churches website looking for a doctrinal statement for the ministry. It’s all there. It doesn’t candy coat the gospel truths about God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. I think you all should check it out. I agree with Jess. His preaching is bringing in many who may not otherwise attend church or read the Bible. Let’s quit fighting with each other and let God use whom he will. Let’s pray for the congregation, for those who truly believe that they will be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and minister to their friends who attend. Let’s pray that the conviction of the Holy Spirit will fall on those who attend and convict them of their need for Christ and give them a hunger for reading the Scripture so they are lead to the truth. Instead of fighting let’s pray for unity. How can Jesus come back for a bride who’s dress is all torn up?
October 18, 2007 at 14:24
With the problem being, Jess, that Christ is not being preached by Joel Osteen. Simply saying Jesus’ name occasionally and throwing in a Scripture verse here or there (usually, out of context, at least if his book is any indication) doesn’t make his preaching the preaching of Jesus Christ or the gospel.
October 18, 2007 at 21:25
Charlotte, Seth, et al; I believe you miss the point of most of the comments. These are not attacks, rather, we express a viewpoint based on our observations of Bro. Osteen’s ministry. The live of a Christian is a life of joy in Christ, but that doesn’t mean God gives us a happy, carefree life in return for our committment. Life can be joyous as well as painful, both falling within the Soveriegnty of the Creator. Some believers will experience a life overflowing with blessings both physical and spiritual. Some will live with heartache every day of their walk on earth. The amazing thing is, the more that a believer struggles, the closer he finds himself to God. That is the true blessing that God gives the Christian. Read the book of Habakkuk. This minor prophet kept asking God, “When’s is going to get better?” God told him,’you think it’s bad now? Just watch what else is going to happen.’ Finally at the end of the last chapter, Habakkuk connects with what God is trying to tell him. This is what he says from the KJV:
“Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls; Yet I will rejoice in the Lord, I will joy in the God of my salvation. Habakkuk 3:17-18
Our joy is in God and God alone. Our true calling is to be able to grow to the point that we can live this truth.
October 19, 2007 at 01:50
Well, listening to you all argue who is right and wrong halfway across the globe in Malaysia. I just have 2 questions and 2 statements
Question:
1. Is there a website which tells who preaches the prosperity gospel and who dosen’t?
2. Has he said anything against the bible?
Statement:
1.Let him who has not sin cast the first stone.
2.Let God be the juge of who’s wrong and right.
October 19, 2007 at 03:33
I haven’t seen the interview, but I use to regularly watch Joel Olsteen. Although a lot of His sermons seemed overly fluffy and at times ambiguous I wouldn’t go so far as saying he’s distorting the Bible. The fact of the matter is we as Christians do have certain privileges that God has given us as a free gift. It seems on one side you have a group of people who turn everything into a privilege and live ridiculously frivolous. Then you have the other end where they believe that everything in life that’s good they should be on their hands and knees begging for or not even asking for at all. Living life with undue stress and problems that could have been avoided by accepting the gifts God has given us.
God is not a slot machine. But God has said various times in the Bible “If you do this. I’ll bless you.” How is it like putting a quarter in a slot machine if God’s the one who’s giving the offer in the first place?
Also the initial comments about Joyce Meyers seemed kind of whacked. I’ve listened to Joyce Meyers for years. The idea she doesn’t preach or know the Bible is unfounded and ridiculous. I would have to say out of all the famous preachers of our time she’s touched me the most (out of the famous preachers that is).
No preacher is perfect. Not even Billy Graham. We’re all human beings. We all have weaknesses. Every pastor gets in an area where someone could consider them wrong. And many times they do get into areas that are wrong. Not every part of their message is going to be 100% correct. We have to be careful here. Because then if it gets too far off course you’re getting into false teachings and heresy. But from what I’ve personally heard and seen. Joel Olsteen isn’t a heretic. He might be off track or off beat in some areas. But He is no heretic.
With that being the case we REALLY need to watch what we say about him lest WE be the ones who God tells were wrong when we get to the end.
October 19, 2007 at 08:12
Wow Jess!
I couldn’t have said it better at all. What a wonderful conclusion! I have to admit, in the past, I have criticized Bro Joel. But I learned to stop doing that. I’d like to add to the comments that its all about the fruit one bears, not just what he says. The truth is that thousands of people have given their lives to the Lord because of his teachings. And I don’t see him as a money preacher at all. He not only talks about going to heaven, but he talks about how to live here as well. I’ve heard him say alot of things about forgiveness that convicted me. I had a hard time forgiving people who had hurt me in ministry. One night while listening to Joel I was so convicted and my heart softened and the burden was lifted.
And by the way, want to know who the people were that I had a hard time forgiving? Tongue-talking, Jesus preaching, shouting, born-again saints! And they did things that even some sinners I know wouldn’t think of doing. Some of them were preachers. Listening to Joel, he confirmed what the Holy Spirit had already been trying to tell me…The pain I experienced from them…laughter when things went wrong, mockery when my ministry began to struggle, blatant works against my ministry and family, dragging my name through the mud; these were all preparations for the next level that I am now being ushered into. I learned from my experience not to think someone is righteous just because they say Jesus’ Name. Truly Franklin Graham is a model of a leader, preacher, saint, and the list goes on. I honor him as a wonderful man of God and I always will. But look at Ted Haggard, President of the Evangelicals, preached fire and brimstone, and how gays are going to hell. And look at what became of him. The very thing he preached against is what he found himself doing, and he even refuses to this day to fully repent! Countless others are having the sheets of hypocrisy snatched off of them as well. Both known and unknown. Things I have personally witnessed have made me see Joel Osteen differently. I know of a fire and brimstone evangelist at a local church who preaches the Gospel in all its entirety, yet she is sexually involved with a married man who’s wife has terminal cancer. Truly there is none holy like the Lord. None. So, what do I do? I rely on God and Him alone to speak to me through whomsoever He chooses and I judge no one.
While it is true, I don’t like his response to questions about heaven or hell, I don’t condemn him because there are others who give the right response, and still do ‘hellish’ things. Which one is worse?
Jess, I agree with you wholeheartedly and you couldn’t have picked a better scripture to conclude. God Bless!
October 19, 2007 at 08:16
while most people in conservative evangelical world take every chance they get to bash this guy, i see good in what he does. i travel around in many “right wing” evangelical events and provide entertainment for them, and i have heard many “pulpits” be used to harm other christians. i am against that and i believe that part of the reason today’s culture doesn’t see our beliefs as critical (we take more time slamming each other down than we do being light and salt. Do i feel that Osteen only gives a positive message? yes i do. the gospel is to fold. it is positive, but there are other aspects to this message. If it brings people to Jesus, i am not so quick to slam fellow ministers. one of the best ways of putting it was done by my former pastor Dr. David Jeremiah. He stated that the only thing he holds against Osteen, is that he doesn’t give a full message. He gives an illustration that if when years ago when he had cancer, if his doctor had only told him about the good things in his body, he would have died because he would have not told him about his cancer. He says Joel does the same thing. only tells people about the good, meanwhile there has to be a change in their heart, not just their “self-image”.
i was on the Jim Bakker show (yes the jim bakker) the other day and was pleasantly supprised to hear what he said. We all know that most of TV evangelist subscribe to the “blessing” theology. He made a statement that resonated with me. He stated that if your gospel is a gospel of money, or blessing, or health and wealth, then it will fail. it can only be centered on Jesus and his person and character. He stated that when he was in prison every thing was taken from him. The gospel of money had failed, the gospel of health and wealth had failed and the gospel of friends had failed, only Jesus was there. that was good to hear from him. I think we should be cautions to criticize the ministry of others, just because they don’t say everything we want them to.
October 21, 2007 at 18:30
I know I’m coming to this a little late, but I’ve seen Joel Osteen on TV (early 2004 when I worked near Chicago), but when I heard he was coming to Northern Ireland I prayed fervently that he would actually preach the Gospel. Unfortunately I haven’t heard anything about his visit because I couldn’t go to see him in person and there was no media coverage. What I did hear him preach on back in 2004 was that Christians should have tidy cars and that they shouldn’t be limited by their current economic circumstances – if you need a bigger house, work for it. Those are important principles to be sure, but they are not the Gospel. There’s a guy I know who’s led hundreds of young people to Christ and he is incredibly tidy and gives prizes to the tidiest dorm room on camps, but he has never said that a mark of a Christian is tidiness. In fact the kids who go to his camps all love the song ‘Oh yes, oh yes there’s something more, there’s something more than gold. To know your sins are all forgiven is something more than gold’. I also must admit that I’m not a tidy person and maybe that’s why I respect untidy Christians who just don’t care about appearances.
But enough of that. My minister was preaching today about how Aquila and Priscilla graciously instructed Apollos in private rather than out in public. I don’t know that much about Joel’s ministry or his church government or the type of people he mixes with, but I hope someone can be gracious with him and work with him out of the public spotlight. Christians attacking other Christians, is not a good witness. I hope and pray Joel will go on to be a great witness.
As a brit I’m interested in the whole ‘one-man-ministry’ culture and how it affects things. We have it to an extent in the UK and Northern Ireland too (Rev. Dr. Ian R. K. Paisley MP MLA comes to mind), but people don’t tend to set themselves up in ‘ministries’ of their own (Ian Paisley formed the Free Prsbyterian Church of Ulster with a few other people rather than just a ministry of his own, although he is very much its figurehead).
Finally, I kind of agree with Jess (#13), I like the fact that theology can get into mainstream news, but I hope people aren’t attracted to Christ for the wrong reasons. People need a strong root. One of the boys at my youth group asked me if it was all right to pray to God to ask to win a football match, and I said it was all right, but I asked, ‘What if you lose?’ Fortunately that got him onto thinking about people getting injured in the match rather than merely the result.
October 21, 2007 at 19:50
Prosperity gospels for me really are heretical. You don’t even get prosperity perfectly in our world so why bother teach it? I know there will be prosperity once we go to heaven but here on earth, tough luck!
Joel Osteen should really learn from Franklin Graham’s knowledge of our Lord not on some mambo jumbo. As I quote from my congregation’s pastor’s message where he quoted it to someone I forgot, “GOD had a SON without sin but HE didn’t have a son without TRIALS.” So prosperity… wait ‘til I see you in heaven!
All praise and glory be to GOD!
October 22, 2007 at 15:59
Joel Osteen does not take a salary from his church. All his money comes from his book sales, I’m not certain what he makes from the sales. I do know he stopped taking the $200,000 a year salary he was getting paid. And I’ve heard that he pay for his own travel. Just from reading most of the responses on this page I’d say not many here have listened to very many of Mr Osteen’s sermons Actually most of you sound like a bunch of haters and body of Christ dividers. I can say this, Jehovah, Creator of all used Joel Osteen to bring me to the Lord. Why don’t you spend you time spreading the Gospel instead of spreading who knows what about about somebody who loves God. Shame on you.
October 22, 2007 at 16:06
Prosperity preaching isn’t only with regards to money. Prosper means in health, in knowledge, as well as financial. It’s many things. People need to relax and realize that what THEY believe is not what everyone else may believe. There is NOTHING wrong with what he is doing, and he does live a modest life. The home showed on TV is a normal home for a successful person, with neighbors, backyard etc. Certainly no mega million mansion that people seem to say.
Anyway, jealousy is at root with many that speak out against him. He’s doing nothing wrong, and spells it out very clearly when asked. He didn’t go to seminary, nor is he a theologian scholar. Then again, look at many church leaders that have been to seminary, and are in jail today with fraud, pedifiphila, tax evasion, etc…
His message is clear and he does exactly what he says he does…he plants seeds of hope, encourages people, and enriches lives in the process.
October 22, 2007 at 16:24
Horatius Bonar. 1818-1899 wrote an article that fits Mr. Osteen and countless other Christian celebs/mega Church pastor’s who write books devoid of repentence or the need for it… AHHH… Tell them they are good and how to cope and you have a mega church tell them mankind is evil, under a curse, (Gal. 1:4) and Christ is the cure they leave… such is modern apostate Christianity… After studying Mr. Osteen’s writings I see the very type of Christianity Bonar warns of:
BEWARE A SOFT AND EFFEMINATE CHRISTIANITY
There is some danger of falling into a soft and effeminate Christianity, under the plea of a lofty and ethereal theology. Christianity was born for endurance; not an exotic, but a hardy plant, braced by the keen wind; not languid, nor childish, nor cowardly. It walks with strong step and erect frame; it is kindly, but firm; it is gentle, but honest; it is calm, but not facile; obliging, but not imbecile; decided, but not churlish. It does not fear to speak the stem word of condemnation against error, nor to raise its voice against surrounding evil, under the pretext it is not of this world, it does not shrink from giving honest reproof, lest it come under the charge of displaying an unchristian spirit. It calls sin sin, in whomsoever it is found, and would rather risk the accusation of being actuated by a bad spirit than not to discharge an explicit duty. Let us not misjudge strong words used in honest controversy. Out of the heat a viper may come forth; but we shake it off and feel no harm. The religion of both Old and New Testaments is marked by fervent testimonies against evil. To speak smooth things in such a case may be sentimentalism, but it is not Christianity… It is a betrayal of truth and righteousness. I know that charity covers a multitude of sins; but it does not call evil good, because a good man has done it; it does not excuse inconsistencies, because the inconsistent brother has a high name and a fervent spirit; crookedness and worldliness are still crookedness, though exhibited in one who seems to have reached no common height of attainment.
October 23, 2007 at 07:41
When I was at a very low point in my life, I tuned into Joel’s TV broadcast (by accident) and was drawn to him. I started watching weekly. I had not been to church since I was a child. Since that time I have quit drinking alcohol, quit smoking, I listen to Christian music, attend church and I am a Sunday School teacher. Joel has a gift of reaching the lost souls and bringing them to God. At the end of every broadcast he tells people to get into a good bible based church, that God loves you, and if you follow God your life will be better. Plain and simple to me.
God Bless Joel and may he bring many more to the Kingdom of God.
October 23, 2007 at 13:07
First off, I’ve got my own issues with Joel Osteen, primarily because he preaches pop psychology instead of the word of God. He injects the Word into motivational speaking, but in the end, it’s not the Gospel of Christ.
All the same, he’s not wholly inaccurate in the result, just the reason. While it’s true, you can’t reduce God down to a simple “if/then” statement, God is as reliable as such. Anyone saying differently is just afraid to put their own faith on the table and test it. God wants to be known, and he explains in the Word how you can know him. If there weren’t a way for a person with questions to test the truth in the Word, then how would someone KNOW they can depend on God?
October 23, 2007 at 14:27
My first time on this site and I have really enjoyed the discussion. Really matured comments.
I have listened to Joel less than five times and in all of those occasions, he came accross as a motivational speaker than a preacher.
I believe he loves the Lord and loves people and will not call him a heretic but surely he is not one to leave a flock with for when they go astray he may not rebuke them in order to bring them in line.
I watched him on Larry King sometime ago and he will not give a definite answer to a callers question as to whether hell is real or not for those who don’t believe. That scared me.
October 23, 2007 at 16:49
I’ve never heard Joel say life would be problem free. He openly shares the heartache of his Dad’s illness and passing. He confesses his own misgivings about entering the pastorate. All the while, he emphasizes his total dependence on the Lord and handling each situation in a Godly way.
Like it or not, he’s our brother and part of the Body of Christ. In devouring him with words, we are consuming ourselves.
No one is going to agree with every single point anyone makes. Let’s look at the fruit. He’s reaching people for Christ.
October 23, 2007 at 18:30
I find a few things very telling about Osteen from his own words in this interview. When asked about being more like Dr. Phil or Oprah than a preacher, he says “I think we use the Bible”.
He should know for sure and not leave any doubt.
And when asked about his 7 tips, he says “I don’t think my calling is to teach people the Bible”.
Now I may be jumbling the words a little. Their video applet doesn’t seem to permit rewinding, so it is hard to hone in on his exact wording. But those words tell me that he doesn’t feel the need to preach anything but his own message of “hope”.
Revelation tells us about a preacher who is going to preach the gospel of the anti-christ, and a lot of people will follow that one too. So having a large following isn’t the real test after all.
October 23, 2007 at 18:55
This is a very interesting dialog. Rev. Joel Osteen needs to be acquainted with full council of God in the Scriptures. Now, question who is going to pull him aside to teach as the previous saint suggested and using Priscilla, Aquila, and Apollos’ in Acts. I find it even troubling when conservative evangelicals use ‘effeminate’ to describe a distortion. Recently I came across John Piper’s article on “Masculine Christianity.” Excuse me, is that opposed to Feminine Christianity? Is there such a thing. This goes to show the grave sexism in Evangelical Christianity. Do describe true Christianity as “masculine” is rooted in Neo-Platonism, not Holy Scriptures. Evangelical Christians really should assess their theological biases as they would assess Osteen’s theology by the Holy Scriptures, not gender.
October 23, 2007 at 20:04
Few questions…how many sermons are on the Gospel? How many sermons need to be directly on the Gospel? Seriously. Regular churchgoers have heard the Gospel countless times. Why is it expected that Joel Osteen preach every sermon on the Gospel? How many pastors do this? How much of the bible is the Gospel?
There is a fundamental difference between Joel Osteen and Billy Graham. Billy Graham is an EVANGELIST. By definition, an Evangelist is someone who evangelizes to people who are unsaved. His primary audience and target is people who are NOT saved.
Joel Osteen is the pastor of the church. Chances are a greater percentage of the people in his church have already heard the gospel message and received it.
Basically, some are expecting Joel Olsteen to preach a message to people who have already heard and accepted it. What’s the point there? It’s like throwing water on a fire that’s already been doused.
“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations” Jesus says at the end of Matthew 28.
Part of making disciples is MOTIVATING them.
As I’ve said, I’ve listened to Joel Osteen for years. Although sometimes he seems a bit soft and fluffy I really can’t recall any sermon that’d be considered a “prosperity” sermon.
It is a fact, God blesses those who walk in accordance with His will and His word more than those who don’t. If that’s a prosperity teaching than just about every prophet and apostle in the Bible is a prosperity-preacher.
“We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.” – Hebrews 5:11-14 (NIV)
The Gospel is the milk. It’s the beginning but its not the end. There are what…61 other books of the Bible? We’re condemning this man because his main teaching to what should be Christians isn’t the Gospel?
That just doesn’t make sense to me.
October 23, 2007 at 22:38
If we are going to be God’s representative we need to rightly divide the word of truth. It is a very serious thing to distort the truth’s of the Bible. We all will be held accountable for causing any of God’s little ones to stumble. If you do not have a shepherds heart you will not be watchful for the welfare of the sheep.
October 24, 2007 at 05:45
“Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.” – 1 John 4:1-3
Does he preach the truth about Jesus or not? That answer should tells us where his allegiance lies.
October 24, 2007 at 10:35
I happen to enjoy watching Brother Joel. I believe a pastor may have his own method of “feeding the Flock”.We do need to know about God’s Grace,Comfort and Love. I also feel,that people need to know about His Wisdom and Judgement.If we are God’s children,then He teaches and admonishes us as ” Beloved Sons and Daughters”.
October 24, 2007 at 11:11
Any criticism of Joel (they are running rampant)is based on incomplete knowledge and a true lack of the critical process needed to label anyone heretical! What a tragedy this is for the entire kingdom.
Not one Christian “theologian” has presented a case that Joel is a heretic. All have made leaps that there is not enough evidence to support. Even in the failed human justice system we consider people innocent until PROVEN guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I would think labeling someone a heretic should have at least this high of a standard of proof. And even then:
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”
Notice that Jesus says “I” will tell them. Him… not us!
I have spent a good amount of prayer over this issue as it is an important one. And the verse that keeps coming to me is:
“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard. He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
“About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ So they went.
“He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’
” ‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.
“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’
“When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’
“The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. ‘These men who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’
“But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
“So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”
October 24, 2007 at 11:48
NO question Joel is very inspirational and a great motivational speaker. I would say he’s a Tony Robbins on the alter. And if you understand that going in to see him – then I guess that’s ok. But my fear is I do not believe everyone understands that he is really just a motivator and gives little in terms of correct biblical ministering.
While his “positive only” message is great I do not believe you can talk about spending eternity in heaven without talking about sin and redemption. The New Testament clearly talks about righteousness and being sorry and repenting for your sins – NONE of which Joel talks about. He doesn’t use the word “sin”. He said it while on Larry King – it’s not in his vocabulary. I also have a problem with his “prosperity-only gospel”. Joel’s actual quote is “I think God wants us to be prosperous. I think he wants us to be happy. He wants us to be successful in our careers”. Joel – is that really the underlying theme of Jesus teaching to the Apostles?? Does God really want us to climb up that corporate ladder and get all those promotions to make more money? To become more successful?? I know many many individuals that became very, very successful in their careers – and you know what – most of them had their marriage and personal life fall apart – you know why – they were to busy managing their careers than tending to their family. Have you EVER heard anyone on their death bed say – “Gee – I wish I spent more time at the office”?
Let say your time on earth is represented by a ONE grain of sand. And let also say your time after-earth (eternity) is represented by ALL THE REST OF THE SAND on all the beaches on the entire earth (think about how many grains of sand that is for a moment). Joel preaches about how to happy and “be prosperous” during that one grain of sand time-frame but preaches nothing about how to make sure the time spent for eternity (all the remaining grains of sand) is spent in heaven. You see – he talks nothing about eternal salvation and repenting for ones sins.
Doesn’t it make more sense to make sure you make it to heaven rather than “be happy” on earth?? That is the problem I have with his teaching. I just don’t recall Jesus telling his disciples – go out and tell everyone how to be “happy and prosperous”. The underling theme of all Jesus preached was how to have internal salvation and to save your soul so you can spend eternity in heaven. Now do you understand why some may be taken back by Joel main theme – pray to be prosperous and be happy? That is not the message of Jesus – period – end of story. e
Is God really only about praying till you get that better job, praying to you get that bigger house, praying till you become more successful in your career, pray to be more prosperous, pray till you get more money??? I don’t think so!! Positive messages are great but you better realize you are 100% accountable for your sins on earth and you all of us are going to come before our maker some day. God will not ask you – were you happy on earth? Did you have a successful career? Were you prosperous? No – you will have to answer for all your sins on earth and explain what you did for the last of your brothers. How we answer those question will determine where you spend eternity.
October 24, 2007 at 11:52
If I read one more response insinuating or stating outright that Christians are jealous of Joel Osteen, his money and his “success”, I will puke. Where in the world is your focus if you’re claiming that those who show concern for Osteen’s “ministry” is rooted in MONEY? Oh that’s right, your focus is the same as Osteen’s “ministry” ultimately is: money and feel-good-ism.
There are trustworthy men and women, out of the spotlight, who have devoted their entire lives to the study of God’s word. An inordinate number of these men and women (who do more than throw scripture out there to support their feelings, but actually spend years and years dissecting it rigorously to suck the marrow from the bones) have given a number of reasons why Osteen’s message is horribly malformed at best, and heretical at worst.
Have any of the Osteen defenders actually READ the material referenced in the post above? Is it that the words, “systematic theology and apologetics” (the Rev. Dr. Horton’s field) are too boring, that there isn’t enough promise of health, wealth and happiness in them to bother with?
There are so many problems with the responses in this thread. It causes one to believe that those people that lament the death of American Christianity aren’t curmudgeonly, but prophetic. Here are some more level-headed responses to Osteen, specifically his piece on 60 Minutes. Please, please read this small sampling before you claim that Osteen is not a prosperity preacher, or that his critics are just jealous or ignorant of his teachings.
http://www.whitehorseinn.org/osteenart01.htm
http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=903
I will trackback this thread when I post my response on my blog to the misguided responses found in this thread.
October 24, 2007 at 13:38
As a Christian I am shock at all the attack of Osteen’s and other’s methods of winning people to Christ. Jesus walked amoung all types to win souls, and if He created us all in His image, then it will take all different types to win souls. So what does it matter how the Gospel is delivered, when in the end we are responsible for our salvation. If you are attacking anyone’s efforts to win souls to Christ, maybe in you, you lack the Holy Spirit’s eyes to see the good that is coming from those efforts. Pray that you can see and hear!!!!
October 25, 2007 at 01:46
I will certainly need to read up on this subject.
While Rev.Osteen is not my favorite, I am among the surprised crowd. Am I wrong in thinking I have heard him speak of Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior and of the Trinity? I enjoyed the explanation given by Matthew Edmund. I will be keeping my heart and eyes, steady on the Holy Scripture test writen by a poster, “David”.
uh, Rose K. do we know each other?
October 26, 2007 at 18:44
In my opinion he is a good motivational speaker who makes people become better. His teachins include things that God wants us to do, and wants us to learn. So why is everyone acting like what he is doing is bad? God wants us to belive in him. Joel Osteen is just taking a different approach but he is still getting there.
October 27, 2007 at 03:19
I was listening to Joel Osteen when I accepted
Christ as my Lord and Savior. Alot of people say he only preaches the easy parts of Faith but I needed the easy parts , I needed to know God’s love and Joel gave that to me. He also told me to attend a Bible based church , which I also did-this church taught me the giving part of my faith. I have no complaints about Pastor Osteens ministry, the Lord used his ministry to save me and I am grateful to Pastor Osteen that he allowed the Lord to use him to reach me.
October 27, 2007 at 04:02
I think Christians can be too critical-Joel Osteen is bringing people to Christ and I have never felt that he was preaching a prosperity gospel-I think he is preaching a God loves you gospel-which the lost need to hear-I listened to him and I believe that the Good Lord used him to show me that I was a sinner who needed to repent and that the Lord loved me.
If you are truly saved by the Lord, the Holy Spirit will teach you the rest.
October 28, 2007 at 21:47
“I want you to get a bigger vision. There are exciting things in your future. Your future is filled with marked moments of blessing, increase, promotion. God has already ordained before the foundation of the world, the right people, the right opportunity. Time and chance are coming together for you. Why don’t you get your hopes up?” Osteen tells his audience. “Why don’t you start believing that no matter what you have or haven’t done, that your best days are still out in front of you.”—Joel Osteen from video clip featured in an October 2007 interview on the CBS program, 60 Minutes
Joel Osteen tells his listeners that God has ordained earthly prosperity for them. He says that God has set up people and opportunities from the foundation of the world for them to get an increase or a promotion. Does the Bible say that? Lets see…
The phrase “foundation of the world” is found in ten places, all in the New Testament. It is used to speak of secrets that Christ taught in parables; a kingdom to be occupied by believers after the judgment of the sheep and the goats; blood for which Israel is judged, love between the father and the son, ...etc. The references are list below. And none of them refer to opportunities appointed to specific believers to reap prosperity.
1. things which have been kept secret (Mat 13:35);
2. the kingdom prepared for believers (Mat 25:34);
3. the blood of all the prophets, which was shed (Luk 11:50);
4. the love of the Father for the Son (Joh 17:24);
5. believers chosen (Joh 17:24);
6. the works (of God) were finished (Heb 4:3);
7. blood if an inferior sacrifice shed many times (Heb 9:26);
8. Christ, the lamb (1Pe 1:20);
9. Christ, the lamb slain (Rev 13:8);
10. names were not written in the book of life (Rev 17:8);
Osteen admits that he isn’t qualified to teach the Bible and he doesn’t feel called to do that. He wants to be a life-coach to the Church. He apparently doesn’t mind making up doctrine to motivate Christians to do what he thinks they ought to do. He spent $100 million remodeling a basketball arena to preaching, but he forgot to include a cross in the sanctuary. He doesn’t think he needs one, answering “I don’t know” when asked why a cross isn’t there.
People claim that he preaches the Gospel, but how can he do that when he leaves the cross out of it?
October 30, 2007 at 08:09
“I want you to get a bigger vision. There are exciting things in your future. Your future is filled with marked moments of blessing, increase, promotion. God has already ordained before the foundation of the world, the right people, the right opportunity. Time and chance are coming together for you. Why don’t you get your hopes up?” Osteen tells his audience. “Why don’t you start believing that no matter what you have or haven’t done, that your best days are still out in front of you.”—Joel Osteen from video clip featured in an October 2007 interview on the CBS program, 60 Minutes
I think, that perhaps it’s the interpertation of Brother Olsteen’s words that is the problem. When I read the above words I find them to be true. Except I don’t believe he’s saying I can have a new car if I just ask for one. I believe he’s telling me that the Lord has a plan for my life, that if I believe in and follow the Lord I will be blessed with both material and spiritual blessings, whichever the Lord thinks is best for me. I have found that the Lord has blessed me with Peace and Joy-he has prospered me just by making me appreciate what I’ve already been given, instead of bemoaning what I don’t have. Since I was saved I do feel that the best is yet to come. Not because I can have whatever I want but because with each day I know him better and because I know he is in control and will never leave me.
God Bless
November 6, 2007 at 19:45
I’m absolutely shocked by the rampant accusations levied against Rev. Osteen.
I’ve heard everything from criticisms about his lack of formal education (as if that was biblically necessarry)....to him smiling too much. (can you believe that ? Now smiling is a bad thing !)
As of yet, I cannot find any “Theologan” (more like accusers) who can show that he is in ANY way violating the word of god. I know of no commandment or requirement that anyone can shows he is doing wrong.
I find it rather interesting that the critics keep repeating this mantra that his church is too big,(as if we follow a weak uncaring God who doesn’t bless his people) of that he is fooling people.
PLEASE ! SOMEONE ! SHOW EVIDENCE OF ANY WRONGDOING!
And I don’t mean the subjective OPINION of: “he’s not talking about sin enough”.
We need to stop misrepresenting our OPINIONS as proof. If the brother is spouting something that probably violates the word of God , we as the good Men of God we think we are, need to show absolute proof of this, or take back out accusations, unless we wan’t to be judged for sowing unnecessarry discord amont the bretherin
Let’s not forget Jesus was accused by the Pharicees ..the super judgemental religious people of his day. They (the “educated” religious teachers) even called HIM the Devil -talk about backward !
In fact Jesus himself rarely quoted scripture, but focused on people understanding the “Heart of the Law” Not to negate the scripture, but to understand the meaning and purpose of the scriptures, and how they untimately frees us from sin. Why do you think he is called our “Redeemer”. I’ve heard Osteen talk about sin, he just doesn’t dwell on it. I’ts good to hear ,for a change, that God loves us and want’s us to rise above sin !
I am seeing some modern Pharicees right here.
He at least seems to understand that God’s nature is good…not the dictator that alot of us think he is.
I wonder which point of view realy understands the heart of the scriptures, and what Jesus was trying to teach us ?
November 7, 2007 at 09:56
Dallasken Says – show evidence of wrong doing
I will give you evidence. Go to http://www.youtube.com and type in “Joel Osteen” and “Larry King”. Watch the ENTIRE first set of interviews he did on the Larry King show (about a year or two ago). He would not say that you need to believe in Jesus to get to heaven. Are you telling me that does not go against the new testament. Then when callers or Larry King asked about atheists, homosexuality, abortions or same–sex marriages – Joel’s exact quote was “you know what Larry – I don’t go there”. WHAT?????? Joel – what do you mean you don’t go there????? The bible certainly does.
In other words – he wouldn’t even discuss these topics because he doesn’t want to “offend” anyone. I’m sorry, I like Joel and he is very inspirational – but you simply cannot say you are a preacher of the word of God and be afraid to offend anyone. To mean it is 100% WRONG not to condemn the behaviors of atheists, homosexuality, abortions or same–sex marriages WHEN ASED ABOUT IT. You are not condemning the person – you are condemning the act or the behavior.
November 7, 2007 at 12:52
I liked the fact that Rev. Osteen didn’t get into the “who goes to Hell” discussion with Larry King since he has said again and again he isn’t here to debate anyone.
It’s pecular to me how we seem more obsessed with who’s going to Hell than letting people know of the goodness of God. Perhaps we should change our focus….just an idea.
This kind of remins me of a quote from Ghandi:
“I would have been a Christian had it not been for Christians” Get it ? People think badly of our religion becuase of how we come across as so hateful, and condemning, even here.
Of course, the bible speaks that certain groups won’t be a part of the Kingdom of Heaven. And Rev. Osteen has said again and again that he firmly believes the way to God is through Jesus. But that’s apparently not good enough for some of us SuperChristians.
Again, I ask:
WHERE IS THE PROOF ? WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE ?
All I’m hearing are our opinions on how he should preach, or how he should be a little clearer in tv interviews….hardly evidence of violating the word of God.
Perhaps a few more scriptures in each sermon is a good idea. Maybe being better prepaired for tv interviews is wise. – but a “false teacher” ? “not a Christian” ? “no knowledge of God” ? We better come with absolute non-subjective evidence before we start accusing him of that !
....otherwise we are no better than the Pharicees.
November 7, 2007 at 18:57
God condemns sin – correct.
The Kingdom of Heaven is through Jesus – true.
We are to stay focused on God – absolutely.
But before anyone can begin to hear any of that, they have to first understand that:
GOD LOVES THEM !
That it was never a part of God’s plan for us to be poor, or sick or depressed. These are tools of the Enemy.
What shocks me is the number of people who say Rev. Osteen is the first “Big Time” preacher to say that God doesn’t want us to be poor or sick.
Why are’nt we ALL saying that ?
I for one, am glad to learn tha God’s forgiveness is greater than our sin. That His power is bigger than our inadequacies. That His power to heal is better than our personal hurt. That His plan for me is bigger than my plans
That He welcomes us like the Prodical Son -even though we mess up. If alot more of us understood THAT, more would submit to God more willingly.
-Step One:
Let the people know God loves them, and wants the best for them. (Like any good father would – and HE is the perfect father)
-Step Two:
THEN teach the commandments, and scriptures of God. Understanding God’s love first,will let the scriptures make sense and show God is not as terrible as we make him out to be.
November 9, 2007 at 00:43
Some speak here like they’ve been sitting at the feet of men like Osteen for a very long time. Like Osteen, they pepper their talk with a few vague references to the Bible, but they demonstrate a lack of understanding.
The love of God doesn’t save anybody, nor does it make the Bible understandable to them. The love of God provides the blood of the Lamb. The Blood is applied to the life a person by faith. They have to believe that Christ is willing to save them from eternal condemnation through the blood He already shed on the cross. (John 3:16-18). God saved by blood in Egypt (Exodus 12) and it is the same today.
Then and only then, is the Holy Spirit given unto them to make the things of God known to them (John 14:16-17; 15:26-27;). Anyone who is a believer will teach these things and know them, because they have the Holy Spirit in them (John 16:8-15).
A true man of God will not pussyfoot around the cross! The salvation of a lost world rests upon the blood that was shed there. They need to know what it means before they can receive it. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
Some of us have given you the Word of God to help you see the deception, but you refuse to consider it. You ask for a sign. You don’t seem to know a sign when one is handed to you. Perhaps you’ve been hanging out with blind guides for too long?
November 13, 2007 at 01:03
I’m not going to say that Reb doesn’t make some reasonable points. I too feel that the only way to salvation is through Jesus and the knowledge of the cross, but I still feel that calling Brother Olsteen a false teacher or a heretic is too extreme. I feel that only the Lord can determine someones heart and even though he isn’t the normal pastor I believe he means well and has a heart for Jesus. I judge him by his fruit and I believe the Lord is using him.
I am a little disappointed that Reb has decided that we who disagree with him aren’t Christians or at the least aren’t good enough Christians to suit him. I do however believe that Reb is my brother in Christ. So even though we don’t agree I still believe that you also have a heart for the Lord.
God Bless
November 13, 2007 at 19:58
Rev. Osteen has time and again affirmed that the only way to the Kingdom is through Jesus. For those of you who doubt that; check the follow-up interview on CNN’s website with Mike Galanos.
Again, no proof of wrongdoing. No commandment, rule – or even indication of violation of any biblical principal.
All I’m hearing is many subjective OPINIONS.
We need to clarify what is an opinion, and what is absolute proof.
I plead with you SuperChristians to refrain from the accusations.
November 14, 2007 at 23:33
To me, it doesn’t matter if what Joel Osteen says is “biblical” or not. That’s because the people who are most concerned whether someone’s teachings are biblical or not are those one who typically have the least spiritual discernment.
Why? It’s because they have given the bible as an outer description of God and not a direct experience of God. The latter, mind you, can only come by exercising spiritual discernment. This in turn is developed only by surrending all our attachments to outer doctrines and dogmas and instead embracing what Jesus calls the “Spirit of Truth.”
Jesus told us the kingdom of God is within us and this does not based on a reliance to the dead letter of the law but rather by using the “key of knowledge” inside themselves. If you have this connection, then you can become an instrument for the Living Word of God.
So the real question should not be is Joes Osteen adhering to the Bible but rather is Joel Osteen and instrument for the Living Word of God?
My answer is a qualified yes. I do believe he is somewhat open to the Living Word and that he gets it from within himself. Unfortunately, however, as he is still hanging on to the vestiges of outer doctrines, the teachings he brings forth are not always spot on, so there is there is much that could be improved as well.
All in all, I believe he is headed in the right direction. And for my spiritual money, even if he sometimes misses the mark, I would much rather listen to someone who dares stray from the orthodox interpretations that have kept Christians in a box for over two thousand years then someone who vainly repeats that same dogmas that will not and never have helped people find the keys to the inner Kingdom that Jesus wants us to find.