Christian talk-show host Reuben Armstrong has Christians—and non-Christians— talking with his new self-published book Snakes in the Pulpit. Not only does Armstrong attack the so-called “prosperity preachers” who “use the Word of God for fame and fortune,” but calls for four of the proponents to immediately resign: Clefro Dollar, T. D. Jakes, Eddie Long and Joel Osteen.
Some random thoughts:
1. I agree that prosperity preaching is unbiblical and deserves to be challenged (see my previous posts).
2. The apostles Paul and John were not afraid to name names in their challenges of unbiblical preaching.
3. And Paul encouraged Timothy to confront first century prosperity preachers:
“If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He [has] been robbed of the truth and [thinks] that godliness is a means to financial gain. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction (2 Timothy 6:3-9).
4. However, the apparent tone (calling these preachers “snakes”), does seem a bit venomous and not in keeping with Paul’s admonition in confronting sin:
“Dear brothers and sisters, if another believer is overcome by some sin, you who are godly should gently and humbly help that person back onto the right path. And be careful not to fall into the same temptation yourself” (Galatians 6:1, emphasis mine).
5. Will this book cause more harm than good? Already the blogsphere is slithering with comments such as:
“Preachers are nothing but self-aggrandizing charlatans and pimps.” [Hooper]
“i don’t trust NO ONE with the salvation of my spirit but me: not Jesus and FO SHO NOT one of these fake pastors, of which 95% of these pastors are.” [PrivateEyes]
“why isn’t he giving the book for free… i believe dude is about money too.” [SleepyAngel30]
6. Like SleepyAngel30, I wonder if Armstrong is attempting to gain his own “fame and fortune” with this book. And if he does, will he “fall into the same temptation” to live the lifestyle of the ones he confronts?
Hmmm? What do you think?
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August 28, 2007 at 18:04
I don’t think the accusation that a guy would write a book calling out other guys about their preaching could be making a cash grab really holds water.
If he didn’t write the book, it wouldn’t be there to be read by people, and fewer people would be thinking and talking about it.
Books take time, effort and (yes) money to write and it’s dishonest to think that you’re somehow entitled to other people’s opinions for free: why SHOULDN’T we be willing to pay for this guy’s work – thoughts and research organized and on paper. Plus, the guy SELF-PUBLISHED. He ate the cost of printing, promoting, and disseminating his book out of his own pocket. He’s clearly willing to lose money just to get heard.
You know what free opinions are called?
Advertising.
August 28, 2007 at 18:17
I was blessed by the words TD Jakes spoke at Hillsong Conference (you want to add Brian Houston to his list..?), and I think in doing so Jesus was glorified. I didn’t buy any of his material, although plenty did, but I think the man does a great work in edifying the Church.
August 28, 2007 at 19:31
Hmmmm…. this is a tough one. I too absolutely hate the prosperity gospel. (John Piper has a moving and powerful video on his web site about his hatred for the prosperity gospel.) The key here is to know God’s Word inside and out to be able to discern these “fake” gospels and then to be able to instruct your family, congregation, friends and anyone who may ask about the errors in the prosperity gospel.
I think that naming names and calling them snakes is where the danger lies. To instruct on the errors of the prosperity gospel is essential but to attack the person is another. I think this is where we are to call the person who is sinning in love. However, I would be careful to note that I am sure this author is NOT the first to let Creflo Dollar or Joel Osteen know they are in sin. If then they continue in sin they are doing so willfully and obviously doing so to “sell Jesus”.
I for one support this pastor and his boldness to stand up for the true Gospel message. The prosperity gospel along with easy believism have permeated mainstream churches in America and now are being ported over to other countries only to create false converts. We should be praying for these people and doing our duty to reveal these errors in our churches and teach Biblically to build up our churches to be able to clearly see these problems and avoid them.
August 28, 2007 at 21:59
I often wonder how a poor christian could ever hope to reach into the circles of rich men and present Jesus to them.
I see that God blessed Job, Abraham etc etc with enormous wealth, even by todays standards. So they’re condemned to hell are they? Does God not bless the works of our hands? We are not to chase after wealth for it is the “LOVE of money that is the root of all evil” not money itself. It is merely a tool.
I have a few friends who are very wealthy. They sow their money, time and themselves back into the community by building hospitals, schools, housing for the homeless etc. They speak with other wealthy men and witnesses to them about our glorious Lord and Saviour, and many want to know more so they too can spread the word.
God wants to give life in “abundance” there were no limits to that abundance or codecils limiting it – provided He got the glory, He got our obedience and we did it for Him.
It’s so easy to judge isn’t it? Oh yes these people are spreading evil ooh waah, we must condemn them.
Does God want us to live in poverty? Hardly. He does say that He would give us the desires of our heart does he not? Yes there are snakes in some pulpits, but there are more than plenty sitting in the seats.
Please note that in 2 Timothy 6:3-9 Paul says “people who WANT to get rich..”. I’d suggest going back to the original text and see if “want” is the correct interpretation and not something like ‘desire’ or ‘yearn’.
God gave my wife and I a brain each and we studied hard for years. My wife and I both have good jobs. Jen’s a highly qualified and regarded scientist, on great money. I’m an electronics technician also on great money. We live well? What would you have us do?
We give quite a bit financially to Gods work and love to be able to do so because so much can get done. We mix with all sorts of backgrounds from homeless to wealthy and treat them all the same.
My wife even had the opportunity to witness to Nelson Mandella. Could person with poor to moderate income do that? Unlikely.
I’m not saying strive to be rich at all, but waht I am saying is that if we have the ability to be the best we can be, and God has given us all differant gifts to do so, then what is wrong with wealth when it is used for God? Look at the wealth that the Catholic church has. Incredible. Just check out the Vatican. They’re the ones you should be concerned about.
August 28, 2007 at 22:09
I thought T.D. Jakes is pretty solid? Has he changed his message or something?
“Frauds” is probably a better word than snakes, then again if you’re in the business of offering spiritual snake oil, well…
By the way, can we add Mike “Somebody listening to me needs to trust God and send some money to this ministry right now” Murdoch, Benny “I’m gonna heal no-one in the hospital” Hinn, Ernest “Put your hand against mine on the screen and you can have your deliverance” Angley, Paula “Sow a seed – donate NOW” White, Robert “Learn how to pay your bills supernaturally” Tilton to this roster while we’re naming names?
August 29, 2007 at 07:23
Though it does seem to me that Jakes is in a different category than Osteen (I am not familiar with the others), in that his books tackle a wider variety of issues – not just success, but release from bondage, which is certainly biblical. Just an impression, of course.
August 29, 2007 at 08:35
Here is my take. If you are still nursing at the “Jesus wants to make you rich” breast then NO book is going to convice you. You are already hypnotized. It often take a trip to the mental ward or a trip down whiskey lane to get one to pull up on the controls and pull the plane out of the dive. Have you ever been to a psych ward and seen the Christians? Often they have been fed this kind of highly destructive and suicidal teaching.
Usually when someone writes a “Christian” book that exposes people it is because they are angry about something. Sometimes they are jealous of the fame or others. I am convinced that many Christian books are written to keep one’s name in the light and on the flocks lip$. There is definately a celebrity pecking order in the money-making industry of American Chri$tianity. The hottest stars get better tables and food at their industry confrences.
Can’t say what the motive was for the book but it took some time and energy to do it. How many would buy it? Not me. It will end ou on the bookstore shelf next to the other similar books, then on the bargain table, then removed from the list. Must make room for the next hottest book!
August 29, 2007 at 11:10
Chris Weller wrote:
You’re totally missing the boat here. First, yes we ARE to judge the fruit of these preachers and their doctrine. It’s, like, our job as Christians. (Not that I think it’s our job to write scathing books about them calling them “snakes”...) Second, this has NOTHING to do with being rich, ultimately. I recently went to a Word-Faith church to support a family member, and was utterly disgusted by what I heard. Was it because the preacher was rich and flaunting it? No, he was moderately dressed (though he was definitely an alum of the Benny Hinn School of Hairdos). His doctrine is what was abhorrent and worthy of disgust akin to what many feel for these “get rich quick” preachers. So don’t attack the straw man of “money”, since that’s only part of the issue.
As for Reuben Armstrong, the brother is angry. I found the following on his own site:
Not knowing the “Juanita Bynum” of whom he speaks, I Googled her and found a news item in which she was PHYSICALLY BEATEN BY HER HUSBAND (who, lamentably, is also a “man of God”) in a hotel parking lot. Assuming that’s the incident from which Armstrong hopes she recovers, we’re left to conclude that Armstrong condones physical beatings to Word-Faith preachers since they’re “walking a thin line” anyway. Disgusting.
If he weren’t so angry and writing diatribes about individual leaders of the Word-Faith movement, he might actually accomplish what he SHOULD be focusing on: rescuing the poor folks that are trapped in the cult of “name it and claim it”. Instead, he comes off as no better than the people he’s attacking, if not worse for the effort.
August 29, 2007 at 12:32
The reference in point 3 should be to 1 Timothy, not 2nd.
August 29, 2007 at 13:45
I often wonder about tv ministries and their credibility. I won’t go into detail why, but has anyone out there ever had an experience that was good or honest?
August 29, 2007 at 14:13
I would agree with Jay that we need to put God’s Word in our hearts and minds so that we will know what is from him and what is from another Jesus.
We can judge all we want but remember that we will be judged from the same stick.
I know that there are some pastors out there on the prosperity band wagon and like it there because there is money to be made. They will get their reward. But, if we know the Word then they don’t get our money because we know they are not real.
If I do give my money, and I give it because I have a real heart for God, and I give it for the right reasons, then God will bless me as He sees fit.
No one can tell me that when I gave money to a cause, whatever it is, that it was not from the heart with the right intentions. Only God knows the heart.
As far as the pastors go, we know who is for God and who is not for God. They themselves know too. If you don’t agree with someone’s message, speak to them directly. If they will not listen to you then they have made their choice and there is nothing you can do to change them. The people that follow them follow because they want to follow them. They too will get their reward.
Yes, there are those people that follow because they don’t know better. If so, then pray that God will touch them.
We shout at the roof tops that this person or that person is wrong and all it does it make ourselves look bad and I believe hurts our witness. Who wants to listen to someone who judges? If we judge righteously I believe we should confront the source of the issue, the pastor themselves.
One last comment from the floor….. How can you love your neighbor if you are accusing them in public of doing something wrong? Shouldn’t you be speaking with them in private?
August 29, 2007 at 15:47
Albert, I disagree that naming names & speaking out against these moneymongerers makes Christians look bad. To the contrary, the greedy guts not only mislead people spiritually, they make real Christians look like fools, because everybody thinks we are just like the false teachers. If people are going to hate Christians, at least let them despise us for standing up for what is right about it!
Prosperity preachers are seductive and deliberately, knowingly fleece God’s flock. They affect a vast number of people, and often “defend” what they are doing by avoiding interviews and public disclosures such as through the ECFA. They prey upon the “take it to your brother in private” verse and use it to silence and shame those who dare address the public and warn people away from spurious, evil doctrine. I say “Good!” for Reuben Armstrong, and wish more Christians everywhere would speak out for the real Jesus!
August 29, 2007 at 23:43
I just read the 1 Timothy 6:3-9 verses in the NIV, Message, Amplified and New American bibles and none of them encouraged Timothy to confront first century prosperity preachers.
All they say is that “He [has] been robbed of the truth and [thinks] that godliness is a means to financial gain.” Where does it say to confront the preacher? Or in the NIV it says: “he is conceited and understands nothing”
I’m not sure which version of the bible this certain passage is taken from as I can’t find it anywhere specifying “financial gain”. Any help with that would be greatly appreciated as well.
August 30, 2007 at 07:17
Keep reading to 1 Timothy 6:10, where love of money has caused some to stray from the faith (an accurate description of prosperity preachers if I ever heard one). Read the little epistle of Jude, too. The Bible does not hesitate to name names when someone does a wrong that affects many spiritually – Eve, Achan, Balaam, Korah, Saul, David, Ahab, Annanias, Saphira, Diotrephes come to mind.
The whole thing about it is that there are many fine, true Christians who are, even as I write, having their possessions confiscated and/or destroyed. Disowned by their families and communities, they truly believe but are poverty stricken because no-one will risk hiring these “infidels.” Many of our greatest Christians are in prisons just now and some haven’t seen their families for years. They are being tortured in unimaginably cruel ways, their “error” being to trust in the true Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Then I watch, oh, let’s not name names, let’s just say, a prosperity preacher on tv. I need to place my trust in Christ because He wants me to prosper/be healed/have abundant money. If I only sow seeds, that is, into the ministry of the one I am watching.
And if by chance I sow a seed, but didn’t get blessed financially or healed? We all know it’s not because the preacher is wrong, oh no – it’s because of my supposed lack of true faith.
Let’s stand up for the truth of Christ & our brothers and sisters who are suffering for Him. Find a good Bible believing mission here or abroad and “sow your financial seeds” into that, expecting nothing in return, but praying souls will be won to Christ instead.
August 30, 2007 at 10:08
I think Joel Olsteen is more of a positive thinking teacher,than a prosperity preacher. I watch his show quite often and never heard him asking for donations or telling people GOD would make them rich. I think he gives many people hope and is not taking scripture out of context.
August 30, 2007 at 13:31
To Albert and others who question publicly confronting preachers:
Galatians 2:14a “When I [Paul] saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, ‘You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew.’” And there are other verses where religious leaders are called out publicly by name for their blasphemous teachings and/or sinful actions. Other samples:
2Sam 12:7 – Nathan calls out David
1Tim 1:19-20 – Paul calls out Hymenaeus + Alexander
When Jesus said “If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you”, 1) He was speaking about personal sin (against “you”), and 2) he allowed for making it public if the offender was unrepentant (“If he refuses to listen, tell it to the church”).
I think there’s pretty good reason to believe that these (and other) teachers were first confronted privately, before their unrepentance led to public rebuke.
Public confrontation is certainly an extreme form of discipline, but extreme actions occasionally call for extreme measures. The reputation of the church, the name of Christ who we represent, and the eternal souls both within and without, are all too sacred for us to ignore the Biblical mandate to call out those who unrepentantly misuse and abuse His name and teachings.
Of course, as others have said, the spirit in which that rebuke is levied is of utmost importance – with a heart of love, compassion, humility, and the desire for the repentance and restoration of the one being rebuked. Whether Armstrong’s book meets that lofty standard is another question.
August 30, 2007 at 18:45
The appearance of contradiction between various scriptures quoted above were neatly resolved in the “Money Cometh” sermon delivered by Rev. Scot C. Moore at Judah Temple AME Zion Church in July 2000: “If you give, you will be blessed, but don’t you know that if you give expecting a reward, you have already tainted the gift?” Giving is because God wants it, because we are grateful, because it is the right thing to do, trusting that God will bless each of us in ways of his own choosing in his own good time, not necessarily with the thing we most want right now. We can no more assure blessings to ourselves with a gift than we can assure our salvation by the merit of our good works—which, incidentally, we should also do at every opportunity, without expecting any reward.
Of course every good thing can be perverted, and this perspective could also be twisted in the hands of a snake: ‘If you gave substantially to my ministry and did not receive ten-fold back from God, you were probably motivated by material gain. You should cleanse your heart, start all over again, and give even more to my ministry.’ As Pastor Moore also said “How come the way for you to be blessed by God always starts with you giving them your money?” At some point some ministries cross the line to where “snake” is an appropriate term, remembering the role of the snake in Genesis. But its hard to tell where that line is, since a snake quoting scripture just might inadvertently save someone’s soul.
August 30, 2007 at 19:32
I call these ‘preacher’s’ millionare creepers for cash. Big smiles and huge mansions with lots of fancy cars and so on only show that they are in it for themselv’s and this is definately their ‘heaven’ since people supply their so called needs, not our God. The Bible tells us that things like this will go on in the last days before His return, so all we can do is ‘serve and obey, for there’s no other way!
August 30, 2007 at 23:25
When Jesus sent out the apostles to the lost sheep of Israel (Mat 10), he told them to be “as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves”. Reuben Armstrong seems to have left the second part of that admonition out.
The LORD said that there would be birds (agents of Satan) in the mustard tree (Church). And He just left that truth hanging out in the air. He didn’t tell us that we’re to get them out of the tree or what to do about them. He knows that men are abiding like tares among wheat, and He knows that people are mixing leaven in with the Gospel. He said that the Lord of the harvest would properly deal with the tares. We’re not to pull them up (destroy). As far as leaven goes, it’s always a picture of a corrupting influence (false doctrine). He left that truth hanging also, but I think it means that we’re to be diligent in making sure that the pure Gospel is proclaimed. If we see leaven being mixed in, then we’re to call it out.
A wise believer will denounce false doctrine, but not try to destroy the man. I don’t know if Armstrong is guilty of the later, but the title of his book seems intended to do harm.
August 31, 2007 at 11:02
When Jesus told us to go to our brother when he has done wrong, and then to the church ifhe will not listen, that was still not in public where the non-believers can hear ths problems between believers. Wecan’t hve a good witness if there is decention in the ranks. Do we know that the author spoke to these preachers first? That sholud be his first chapter. We need to read scripture as it is written and notchange itto fi us aguements. Is there nyone here that has rebuked a brother in public that has had restoration? I don’t know of even one that has. The normal thing that happens is that the brother no longr comes around. And what can be gained by that?
September 1, 2007 at 06:47
“God will not be used as currency for the purchase of idols.”
I heard a pastor say this recently and it struck me cold. Prosperity preaching is not the only thing this quote touches – I think it reaches into all of our presuppositions and methodologies and forces a fresh look at what the good of the Gospel truly is.
September 1, 2007 at 09:07
The word of God declares in John 10:10 that the thief comes to kill, steal and destroy, but I come that you may have life and have it more abundantly. This means life in all its fullness. Therefore, how can anyone, who owns a dictionary that is, say that God does not want his people to be blessed with wealth. It takes money to spread the gospel to the world. There are many examples of wealthy people in the bible who were used to further the kingdom. It is a lie of the enemy to say that the man of God who labors should not be blessed. It’s ok for the world to have, but the people of God should have nothing..is that what you are saying? Some would think nothing about an Executive of a big company having a mansion, a private jet etc. But you have a problem with God causing his people to prosper and have great success. Yes that line is in the bible too. Read the scriptures and if you disagree, take it to the one who authorized it. The true snake is the one who would speak against or try to twist what Jesus has already said. You are deceived when you don’t know the truth. Why waste your money on a book of lies when you already have the truth of God’s word.
September 1, 2007 at 16:42
Kimberly, I would like to share with you that I have no problem with success. It’s gauging God’s blessing by how wealthy we become or are that I have a problem with, and it’s telling others that they don’t have real faith if they won’t send money that I have a problem with. It’s also taking the true seed, which is the Word of God, the Holy Bible, and twisting scripture to say that money are the seeds that we sow instead of the Gospel message that I have a problem with. This “God wants to prosper you financially – if you support [insert televangelist here]” is turned upside down by true worshipers in house churches in China, by the persecuted believers of Saudi Arabia, by struggling Christians & churches the world over…and, just wondering, but if what these “preachers” are teaching is true, then why aren’t missionaries – who work 24/7 sowing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, no question about it – rich?
You write “It takes money to spread the gospel to the world.” Agreeing with you on this is just what causes me to understand that it is absurd for me to give a money donation to someone who will use it to build yet another earthly mansion, to someone who refuses to hold him/herself financially accountable through the ECFA (or another respected independent auditing group).
Finally, I did take up this wealth issue with my Heavenly Father. He reminded me that wealthy Job was the most righteous man of his time – and the most afflicted; that Abraham was wealthy, but lived all his life in a tent; that Lot was wealthy but his wealth meant nothing when it came to saving his family; that Jesus was born in a manger; He also reminded me of the power of a widow’s mite, which cost a widow her last cent on this earth but gave her God’s own commendation eternally; of a rich young man He told to give to the poor and follow Him; and of the streets of heaven being paved with the stuff greedily hoarded down here.
September 3, 2007 at 17:14
Watchman Nee has a very enlightning book entitled “Spritual Authority.” Read it if you like it may help many of you. Also remember what the scripture says, “The powers that be are ordained of/by God Himself. Let God be God and he’ll deal with all of us accordingly. Do we know what type of allowance/salary these so named pastors receive? Are you telling me also that people who have not had a dime to send to any of these ministries have not been affected by the messages being delivered? Some may have positively and possibly some negatively. “Desire the sincere milk of the word” as found in I Peter 2:2. When you eat fish, you eat the meat and throw the bones away, use what you can to sustain you and if you don’t like fish, try something else.
September 20, 2007 at 22:13
I was at the book store today and it was amazing to see how many books have been written on the Christian life. At the same time these millions who have read these books never read God’s Word to get His direction on the subjects.
I believe that most Pastors were never called in the first place but were charismatic enough to get a group of people to follow them. Since they were not called, we can’t expect The Lord to be present in these churches which forces them to make things happen in their own strength. Since a lot of them are talented they do some impressive things without God’s presence.
As a Chinese missionary told Dr. Towzer, “I am amazed at how much the American Church can accomplish without the Holy Spirit.”
When the church leadership gets to the point that the members don’t have access to them, and can hold them accountable, then we will continue to have Pastors falling into all kinds of temptations.
Instead of writing books on how evil fellow Christians are, we are told to be praying, fasting and spending time in God’s Word. And as long as the Saints don’t hide God’s Word in their hearts they will continue to be tossed to and fro as a ship on the seas and lead astray into doctrines like the Prosperity movement.