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	<title>Comments on: A light to the virtual worlds</title>
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		<title>By: tekchip</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkchristian.net/index.php/2005/12/07/a-light-to-the-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-5292</link>
		<dc:creator>tekchip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 17:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkchristian.net/?p=459#comment-5292</guid>
		<description>Thanks jwise for the words of wisdom that you speak through the spirit!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks jwise for the words of wisdom that you speak through the spirit!</p>
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		<title>By: jwise</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkchristian.net/index.php/2005/12/07/a-light-to-the-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-5289</link>
		<dc:creator>jwise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 16:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkchristian.net/?p=459#comment-5289</guid>
		<description>tekchip,

That&#039;s why I said that there IS a possibility that some may be reached through such activity.  ANY event (video games, football, church attendance, underwater basket weaving) can become our idol and keep us from the Kingdom, OR become an opportunity where we may meet others and minister to them.

That said, many more people I interact with are in danger of idolizing a world that doesn&#039;t exist.

You make a very valid point about the Bible being violent.  However, it records history as it happened.  Video games on the market today allow you to commit unbelievable crimes and wickedness and then justify it because &quot;It didn&#039;t really happen!&quot;  That&#039;s the danger that scares me.

If you can set up a ministry with these gamers where you can get them to see their wickedness and how that very wickedness is what&#039;s acting out in the game, and then show them how incredible REAL life can become when we live righteously before our Lord, then may God give you great power to do so.  But be very careful that you&#039;re not drawn away from those to whom you minister and trapped by a very powerful Enemy.  Does that make sense?

As for &quot;Go to a LAN party&quot;, I&#039;ve been to many LAN parties.  I grew up on DOOM and Quake (I, II, III), and many other games.  But the Lord has shown me how much time and money I was wasting on those things and that I was merely excusing my Flesh by saying &quot;But it&#039;s MINISTRY!&quot;

I can&#039;t tell you whether your parties are truly glorifying to God.  Ask Him.  If He says, &quot;Yes, I need you here,&quot; then continue on with all His blessing.  If His answer is, &quot;You know this isn&#039;t profitable!&quot;, then ask for strength to move on.

May we always seek to serve our King and &quot;do [our] best to make [our] own choices based on the will of our Lord and Savior.&quot;  God bless!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tekchip,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I said that there IS a possibility that some may be reached through such activity.  ANY event (video games, football, church attendance, underwater basket weaving) can become our idol and keep us from the Kingdom, OR become an opportunity where we may meet others and minister to them.</p>
<p>That said, many more people I interact with are in danger of idolizing a world that doesn&#8217;t exist.</p>
<p>You make a very valid point about the Bible being violent.  However, it records history as it happened.  Video games on the market today allow you to commit unbelievable crimes and wickedness and then justify it because &#8220;It didn&#8217;t really happen!&#8221;  That&#8217;s the danger that scares me.</p>
<p>If you can set up a ministry with these gamers where you can get them to see their wickedness and how that very wickedness is what&#8217;s acting out in the game, and then show them how incredible REAL life can become when we live righteously before our Lord, then may God give you great power to do so.  But be very careful that you&#8217;re not drawn away from those to whom you minister and trapped by a very powerful Enemy.  Does that make sense?</p>
<p>As for &#8220;Go to a LAN party&#8221;, I&#8217;ve been to many LAN parties.  I grew up on DOOM and Quake (I, II, III), and many other games.  But the Lord has shown me how much time and money I was wasting on those things and that I was merely excusing my Flesh by saying &#8220;But it&#8217;s MINISTRY!&#8221;</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t tell you whether your parties are truly glorifying to God.  Ask Him.  If He says, &#8220;Yes, I need you here,&#8221; then continue on with all His blessing.  If His answer is, &#8220;You know this isn&#8217;t profitable!&#8221;, then ask for strength to move on.</p>
<p>May we always seek to serve our King and &#8220;do [our] best to make [our] own choices based on the will of our Lord and Savior.&#8221;  God bless!</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Orr</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkchristian.net/index.php/2005/12/07/a-light-to-the-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-5288</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Orr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 16:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkchristian.net/?p=459#comment-5288</guid>
		<description>Right on! I started gaming as a way to interact with my son, found a Chriatian Clan (Halo) and have discovered what many are coming to realize - Gamers are the next big mission field!!!!
WE have not only had kids confess but rescued from  gaming and returning to Church Halelejah!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on! I started gaming as a way to interact with my son, found a Chriatian Clan (Halo) and have discovered what many are coming to realize &#8211; Gamers are the next big mission field!!!!<br />
WE have not only had kids confess but rescued from  gaming and returning to Church Halelejah!!!</p>
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		<title>By: tekchip</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkchristian.net/index.php/2005/12/07/a-light-to-the-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-5287</link>
		<dc:creator>tekchip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 16:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkchristian.net/?p=459#comment-5287</guid>
		<description>Correction: Scripture at the end of that next to last paragraph should be Matthew 28:16-20. Sorry! Got cut and paste happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction: Scripture at the end of that next to last paragraph should be Matthew 28:16-20. Sorry! Got cut and paste happy.</p>
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		<title>By: tekchip</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkchristian.net/index.php/2005/12/07/a-light-to-the-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-5285</link>
		<dc:creator>tekchip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 16:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkchristian.net/?p=459#comment-5285</guid>
		<description>I do think jwise has a valid concern but as with anything there are those who may have to shy away from a certain activity due to concerns of negative reaction or effect. Scripture makes this clear especially in Exodus 20:3-6,23. We could/have/should really apply that logic to anything.

The fear of violence I&#039;m not sure is entirely valid. Have you read the bible!? What with its nailing people to trees and people being beaten and hanged. I like the part at the end where all of man kind is thrown in to turmoil and death and destruction is brought down on them. Or the part where that Abraham guy goes out and kicks some butt against some kings that took his family members and their possessions.

While there may be some who take something overboard and do make them in to an idol and thus act inappropriately I think its unfair to judge a past time as a whole based on the actions of a few. And in fact the scripture says we arnt to judge others at all period. As a whole group or as individuals. Christianity as a whole struggles with this same issue. How many people despise christianity as a whole because some catholic priests molested some children? Is it right or fair of those people to make those judgments? NO! Not by a long shot.

As for the fear of ignoring or dismissing the needs of our fellow man you&#039;ve obviously not been to a real LAN party. The event is more social than anything. In fact that desire for social interaction is what pushes people to have these things. Yes video games get played at them and are the center/reason for the event but the point is to interact with others. This same concept applies to the love of MMOG style games. Those games are primarily social. Its the reason more and more people are moving away from the violant first person shooter style games and going to mmog. They are social and they are untouched largely by believers with the view point as expressed above. This makes for a huge social platform largely devoid of any spiritual water. Your asking me to ignore that because some of the games are a little violent and a few people have taken things to far? If there are a greater number of people taking it to far and being hurt then thats where we need to be! We need to be showing them the truth. Showing them they are making their past time in to an idol. How are we going to know that its taking place unless we are there? Matthew 18:15-17

I do my best to make my choices based on the will of our Lord and Savior and not by the words or will of man. I urge you to make the same effort but be cautious that you are not being judgemental or making an uninformed decision. Go to a lan party. Play a game. Apply the scripture and see where you come out. If you still come out thinking we dont need to be there then Lord help those gamers who never hear the word because they are stuck in a social situation devoid of the influence of the spirit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think jwise has a valid concern but as with anything there are those who may have to shy away from a certain activity due to concerns of negative reaction or effect. Scripture makes this clear especially in Exodus 20:3-6,23. We could/have/should really apply that logic to anything.</p>
<p>The fear of violence I&#8217;m not sure is entirely valid. Have you read the bible!? What with its nailing people to trees and people being beaten and hanged. I like the part at the end where all of man kind is thrown in to turmoil and death and destruction is brought down on them. Or the part where that Abraham guy goes out and kicks some butt against some kings that took his family members and their possessions.</p>
<p>While there may be some who take something overboard and do make them in to an idol and thus act inappropriately I think its unfair to judge a past time as a whole based on the actions of a few. And in fact the scripture says we arnt to judge others at all period. As a whole group or as individuals. Christianity as a whole struggles with this same issue. How many people despise christianity as a whole because some catholic priests molested some children? Is it right or fair of those people to make those judgments? NO! Not by a long shot.</p>
<p>As for the fear of ignoring or dismissing the needs of our fellow man you&#8217;ve obviously not been to a real LAN party. The event is more social than anything. In fact that desire for social interaction is what pushes people to have these things. Yes video games get played at them and are the center/reason for the event but the point is to interact with others. This same concept applies to the love of MMOG style games. Those games are primarily social. Its the reason more and more people are moving away from the violant first person shooter style games and going to mmog. They are social and they are untouched largely by believers with the view point as expressed above. This makes for a huge social platform largely devoid of any spiritual water. Your asking me to ignore that because some of the games are a little violent and a few people have taken things to far? If there are a greater number of people taking it to far and being hurt then thats where we need to be! We need to be showing them the truth. Showing them they are making their past time in to an idol. How are we going to know that its taking place unless we are there? Matthew 18:15-17</p>
<p>I do my best to make my choices based on the will of our Lord and Savior and not by the words or will of man. I urge you to make the same effort but be cautious that you are not being judgemental or making an uninformed decision. Go to a lan party. Play a game. Apply the scripture and see where you come out. If you still come out thinking we dont need to be there then Lord help those gamers who never hear the word because they are stuck in a social situation devoid of the influence of the spirit.</p>
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		<title>By: David Mackey</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkchristian.net/index.php/2005/12/07/a-light-to-the-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-5240</link>
		<dc:creator>David Mackey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 23:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkchristian.net/?p=459#comment-5240</guid>
		<description>I found the original post and all comments that I read very thoughtful and provoking (in a positive way). I am unsure where I fall in this argument. I enjoy playing wargames, and I have sought to reach people while playing them through casual conservation. I have to agree with jwise&#039;s comments however that there is a very great danger that we can use &quot;evangelism&quot; as an excuse for &quot;addiction.&quot; I say this b/c I know this could be a temptation I would face.
On the other hand, I know that I am also struggling with the thought, &quot;if ministry is that fun, it can&#039;t be right.&quot; Which I am not sure is a theologically correct thought.
Finally, I struggle with the content of many of these games. I have learned to weep over death and loss - in real life and through film, but I have not yet learned through gaming. There is no sorrow when you blow someone away in a FPS. On the other hand, it may foster an awareness of what our soldiers suffer...
So, I guess I&#039;d just say, I have mixed feelings, but I look forward to further discussion on the topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found the original post and all comments that I read very thoughtful and provoking (in a positive way). I am unsure where I fall in this argument. I enjoy playing wargames, and I have sought to reach people while playing them through casual conservation. I have to agree with jwise&#8217;s comments however that there is a very great danger that we can use &#8220;evangelism&#8221; as an excuse for &#8220;addiction.&#8221; I say this b/c I know this could be a temptation I would face.<br />
On the other hand, I know that I am also struggling with the thought, &#8220;if ministry is that fun, it can&#8217;t be right.&#8221; Which I am not sure is a theologically correct thought.<br />
Finally, I struggle with the content of many of these games. I have learned to weep over death and loss &#8211; in real life and through film, but I have not yet learned through gaming. There is no sorrow when you blow someone away in a FPS. On the other hand, it may foster an awareness of what our soldiers suffer&#8230;<br />
So, I guess I&#8217;d just say, I have mixed feelings, but I look forward to further discussion on the topic.</p>
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		<title>By: jwise</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkchristian.net/index.php/2005/12/07/a-light-to-the-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-5233</link>
		<dc:creator>jwise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 21:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkchristian.net/?p=459#comment-5233</guid>
		<description>I think there are outreach opportunities in playing games and reaching the lost people who may come, but I see a huge danger in some of the newer MMOGs that are sweeping the world of gaming.

We don&#039;t like this world.  There isn&#039;t enough sex, we can&#039;t get away with rape or murder or beating some guy to a pulp... so we create a world where these things are not only allowed, but often required and encouraged!  Millions of people now care more about a digital character in a virtual world than they do about the neighbor across the street who&#039;s struggling with an adulterous or abusive husband.. or the homeless guy on the street who needs something to eat and a place to sleep.

We pour our money into new computers, new games, monthly subscriptions, and hours and hours of time to feed our fleshly desires.

While I will admit that some may reach a lost soul here or there by playing video games with them, I&#039;d be FAR more worried that it&#039;s just an excuse we&#039;re making so we can play our games for thousands of hours and not feel guilty because we&#039;re not out meeting real needs for real people in the real world.  Why do I say this?  Because this is a beast inside me that I have to beat down all the time.  I know the excuse, I know the temptation, and it scares me to death.

Seek first His Kingdom and His righteousness!  All these other things will be given to you.  Don&#039;t be caught up in a world which isn&#039;t even a world :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there are outreach opportunities in playing games and reaching the lost people who may come, but I see a huge danger in some of the newer MMOGs that are sweeping the world of gaming.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t like this world.  There isn&#8217;t enough sex, we can&#8217;t get away with rape or murder or beating some guy to a pulp&#8230; so we create a world where these things are not only allowed, but often required and encouraged!  Millions of people now care more about a digital character in a virtual world than they do about the neighbor across the street who&#8217;s struggling with an adulterous or abusive husband.. or the homeless guy on the street who needs something to eat and a place to sleep.</p>
<p>We pour our money into new computers, new games, monthly subscriptions, and hours and hours of time to feed our fleshly desires.</p>
<p>While I will admit that some may reach a lost soul here or there by playing video games with them, I&#8217;d be FAR more worried that it&#8217;s just an excuse we&#8217;re making so we can play our games for thousands of hours and not feel guilty because we&#8217;re not out meeting real needs for real people in the real world.  Why do I say this?  Because this is a beast inside me that I have to beat down all the time.  I know the excuse, I know the temptation, and it scares me to death.</p>
<p>Seek first His Kingdom and His righteousness!  All these other things will be given to you.  Don&#8217;t be caught up in a world which isn&#8217;t even a world <img src='http://www.thinkchristian.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: tekchip</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkchristian.net/index.php/2005/12/07/a-light-to-the-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-5215</link>
		<dc:creator>tekchip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkchristian.net/?p=459#comment-5215</guid>
		<description>I think Tim makes a good point. While the internet is a tool we have to keep in mind the human element and we need to go where the need is. Not just set up camp in a comfortable area and wait/hope others come to us. We need to be out where the need is. Thats why our group is looking to move out of the church and get on to the college campus and in the dorms.

I just recently went to a play put on by Parkview Church(http://www.parkviewchurch.org) who also has an on campus ministry here. The play was about Father Damien who ministered to the leper colony on the island of Moloki Hawaii. You want to talk about showing love and going to where the hurt and needy are. Its a powerful lesson.

With that in mind would there be any one interested in starting a ministry reaching out to the millions of gamers who gather at LAN&#039;s like QuakeCon? No setting up camp under the &#039;christian&#039; flag. Just rolling down there to live the life for Christ, share the Word and do some frag&#039;n on the side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Tim makes a good point. While the internet is a tool we have to keep in mind the human element and we need to go where the need is. Not just set up camp in a comfortable area and wait/hope others come to us. We need to be out where the need is. Thats why our group is looking to move out of the church and get on to the college campus and in the dorms.</p>
<p>I just recently went to a play put on by Parkview Church(http://www.parkviewchurch.org) who also has an on campus ministry here. The play was about Father Damien who ministered to the leper colony on the island of Moloki Hawaii. You want to talk about showing love and going to where the hurt and needy are. Its a powerful lesson.</p>
<p>With that in mind would there be any one interested in starting a ministry reaching out to the millions of gamers who gather at LAN&#8217;s like QuakeCon? No setting up camp under the &#8216;christian&#8217; flag. Just rolling down there to live the life for Christ, share the Word and do some frag&#8217;n on the side.</p>
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		<title>By: Life in student ministry &#187; Online gaming as a mission field</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkchristian.net/index.php/2005/12/07/a-light-to-the-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-5212</link>
		<dc:creator>Life in student ministry &#187; Online gaming as a mission field</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkchristian.net/?p=459#comment-5212</guid>
		<description>[...] Over at Think Christian Andy posted about how the online gaming community might become a new mission field as Christians start to form their own guilds and clans within these communities. I agree that online communities are becoming very prevalent and almost as important to some people as real-life communities, but I would hate to see Christian sub-groups form and start to divide &#8220;us&#8221; from &#8220;them.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Over at Think Christian Andy posted about how the online gaming community might become a new mission field as Christians start to form their own guilds and clans within these communities. I agree that online communities are becoming very prevalent and almost as important to some people as real-life communities, but I would hate to see Christian sub-groups form and start to divide &#8220;us&#8221; from &#8220;them.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkchristian.net/index.php/2005/12/07/a-light-to-the-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-5211</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkchristian.net/?p=459#comment-5211</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good point, Tim.  If all we&#039;re doing in these games is re-creating the &quot;Christian ghettos&quot; that already plague us in the real world, we won&#039;t do anyone much good.  Now that I think of it, I can see an overtly Christian guild being as much a liability as an effective witness.  I guess it depends on the people and the context.

Brock and Tim, it&#039;s neat to hear that both of you guys have found ways to connect to others in a meaningful way through gaming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good point, Tim.  If all we&#8217;re doing in these games is re-creating the &#8220;Christian ghettos&#8221; that already plague us in the real world, we won&#8217;t do anyone much good.  Now that I think of it, I can see an overtly Christian guild being as much a liability as an effective witness.  I guess it depends on the people and the context.</p>
<p>Brock and Tim, it&#8217;s neat to hear that both of you guys have found ways to connect to others in a meaningful way through gaming.</p>
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