That’s the headline over at Christianity Today.
All kinds of thoughts are swirling around in my head after reading this:
- How (or will) this be different compared to when it happened to Amy Grant in 1999? A lot in society and the Christian subculture has changed since then. Will people (especially radio and retail) be more understanding?
- Who cares? (No offense to Jaci.) I mean, she’s just a singer. She’s not a pastor, a theologian, the head of a denomination…but would that matter? Do any of those titles deserve different treatment in this situation?
- How will this affect her fans, especially her young ones? Yes, she is a role model. Unfortunately, and especially in the Christian realm, somehow that means the model she is to be is perfection personified. What a bunch of bunk. Her opportunity now is to be a role model of how a follower of Jesus deals with the inevitable crap in her life.
That reminds me of something Mike Yaconelli said: “It’s not about perfection; it’s about our intimacy with God, or our connection, our relationship with God. Once we get through that, once we realize that we can be imperfect, flawed, broken; those kinds of things are the ingredients of spirituality.”
A friend of mine told me the other day of a conversation with someone interested in attending our church. She asked what it was like. My friends replied that “we’re a bunch of flawed people who want to learn more about Jesus.”
Amen.
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August 23, 2005 at 11:48
simul iustus et peccator...
August 23, 2005 at 11:56
I fear this may be reacted to in the same way Amy Grant’s divorce was reacted to. I have the same feeling now that I did then (especially now that I am going through a divorce myself). We are all human and we, as Christians, realize that divorce is not God’s best for us. But we also cannot live each other’s lives and know what goes on behind closed doors. This is going to be a very difficult time for Ms. Velasquez whether the divorce was her idea or not. We as fellow Christians should encourage her to continue to seek God during this difficult time, not tear her down during this already emotionally vulnerable time in her life.
‘That reminds me of something Mike Yaconelli said: “It’s not about perfection; it’s about our intimacy with God, or our connection, our relationship with God. Once we get through that, once we realize that we can be imperfect, flawed, broken; those kinds of things are the ingredients of spirituality.”’ AMEN!!!
August 23, 2005 at 11:58
The fact is, I am sad that Jaci got a divorce – not simply because she’s a singer but because she’s a Christian. I would be sad if any of my friends who are currently married got divorced! And, unfortunately, when you are a public figure in any way, you are a model to young fans that adore you, whether you wanted that job or not. Not to say that it’s worse when celebrities get divorced – it’s just talked about more & brought up as an example. I think ppl reacted the way they did towards Christian celebrities that divorce is simply that they were suppose to be different – they were supposed to mean what they say when they say “til death do us part” and be committed through the thick and thin. And that commitment to be made after careful consideration. So, this isn’t an issue about expecting perfection, it’s about expecting that all Christians be committed to staying together and to keep their vows.
August 23, 2005 at 13:19
“Will people (especially radio and retail) be more understanding?” With the exception of mean personal attacks, which are never acceptable, I hope not.
I am a big believer in grace. But we need to add truth.
I’m not in the holyness movement by any means. But when are Christians going to say the obvious: God hates divorce? HATES. There are only, to my knowledge, eight things God specifically mentions hating. This is one of them. Jesus went into great detail about it.
God singled it out, spent a lot of time talking about it, gave clear commands. The church, in many cases, just ignore it. So much for walking in agreement with God.
The church has bought into the lie that sin doesn’t matter, that sin – even terrible, heneious in God’s eyes sins like divorce and murder – should just be “understood.” (Or worse, we act as if God didn’t tell us how he thinks about it.)
You cannot even read out loud what Jesus said about divorce and remarriage any more in many churhes. Let alone what Paul said about how to deal with a sinning believer! This does a terrible thing to our relationship with God, each other, and our outward witness.
I don’t propose you hate the sinner. Let me make that clear – we are to speak with grace. Love the person who did wrong. Gentle words, kindness, care for the individual. But you cannot CARE for someone without CONFRONTING them when in sin. Love without this is not love at all.
What does GOD command? Did you even know that God GAVE a command? Yep, if a believer sins, we have specific, clear commands to follow. And if the person does not respond? An unrepentant sinner according to GOD is to be given a clear rebuke, even to the point of refusing to eat with them.
Or did God spend all this ink on this topic for nothing?
Love confronts. Jesus confronts. Paul confronted people, bluntly and with great love and concern.
And yet the modern churches so often wimp out and trade false peace for real family love and concern.
August 23, 2005 at 16:38
Sorry—just my little ole opinion, not worth much—I know—
After almost a year—- without a ministry position—looking for a place to do some sort of ministry—being down, trying to raise a family, desireous of reaching people—
Why is the Christian community so wrapped up or concerned about “our” celebrities? There are so many more important things.
For starters—lost people
Our nieghbors
Just for starters—In truth, the “Christian” high life lost its glamor for me a long time ago. Honestly speaking—there are so many other things to get concerned over—I remember the Amy Grant thing—just another person living in a lost and sick world. Why are they so important to us?
There really is more important things—
There are so many people getting divorced today—I almost cringe going to weddings anymore… watch “Christian” t.v. What a joke! Why have we propped up so many people? Why are they held so high? The same Jesus lives in them, that lives in the guy cleaning floors or doing brain surgery or is fighting in Iraq or is…. It is crazy. By the way—Pat Robertson is in the news today— Why does he get press? What person outside of “Christiandoom” cares? They listen to “our” celebrities and must think… “these people are no different than us”
and you know, they are right. It is nuts!
August 23, 2005 at 17:32
I cannot be Jaci’s judge as I myself am separated from my wife of 4 years. Divorce is a sad thing to go through, like death. If people who never go through a divorce throw stones at those who do, are they any better? The Bible does not list divorce as the unforgiveable sin, but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
August 23, 2005 at 20:16
I am sad, tho’ i do not know the specifics, i am amazed at how ‘christians’ as imperfect as we are, would give more room for the flesh, than depend with all the strength or weakness, and everything that is in us to cry out to our God and allow Him to move in our lives by obedience to His will and the power of His Holy Spirit that lives within us. We each one are a stone, building up a Holy Temple, when a stone falls in the water there is a rippling effect.
Dear Holy Father – plz touch and change hearts and minds to revive us and make us desire You more than life, Amen.
August 23, 2005 at 22:28
Jaci is more than “just a singer.” She is a Christian who ministers through music on a public stage, and she has sought that spiritual authority. IMHO, any Christian artist who accepts that mantle of leadership accepts a higher and more serious level of accountability before God. Jaci appears to be accountable only to herself, and that may be as big a tragedy as the divorce. Where is the local church in her life? In many ways, it appears that Christian youth culture looks to artists and celebrities more than the church. It appears to me that Jaci is the tragic poster child of a failed Christian culture—thrust into spiritual leadership as an immature teenager with a platform, crassly packaged as a Christian role model, and pushed out front with little or no accountability. I think it’s a shame, and shameful, not just for Jaci but for all of us as Christian culture.
August 24, 2005 at 00:25
Hi,
I am a bit disappoint that she did get a divorced. I am not too sure who wanted it but I am disappointed in her none the less. The thing is that if you want to singer you have to prepare to be a role model especially a christian. These things are serious business, a lot people nowadays take ‘making decisions’ lightly like a lot of things in life. It all boils down to your faith, how seriously you take it, whether you accept risks and circumstances you choose. The only thing that last are commitment to yourself and your partner to God. if these things are not in kept check . Well prepare to have things fall apart. I am not condemning Jaci, really I am not may be she just needs this to remind her that may be she needs God to be a constant in her life i don’t know. People fall down, sometimes by accident or by their own fault. We can do our part by not keeping them down. It is so easy to criticize about people I must I admit but I guess I can do one thing better I pray that God restores her to himself and also her partner. After all we were bought by grace, and tomorrow’s ticket is blank and I say we live the way God intended tomorrow. God bless.
August 24, 2005 at 07:52
My heart goes out to Jaci and her family during this time. The negative effects of a divorce are often felt for many, many years across several generations.
As a marriage ministry leader and coordinator of http://www.VictoryinMarriage.org , I am deeply concerned and saddened by the divorce rate within the Body of Christ. However, when a divorce does occur, the divorcing couple needs to experience the love and compassion of fellow believers—-not judgment.
We all know that divorce is not God’s best. I believe that when God says that He hates divorce, it is not the result of some harsh judgment of sin. God hates divorce because of what it does to the hearts and minds of those involved. Divorce is extremely painful and I pray that Jaci, her husband and family members experience the love and compassion of Christ during this trying time.
August 24, 2005 at 08:41
This one is a little tricky for me. In the Bible it states that you shouldn’t divorce in any situation except for marital unfaithfulness. If you’re not a Christian and you divorce and then become a Christian, I think it’s ok. However, if you’re a Christian and divorce, I think what Jesus said applies. Whoever sleeps with the woman that is divorced is considered an Adulterer. Not to say that this sin could not be forgiven, but it makes for a bad situation. DO we take Jesus literally when he speaks about divorce or was this a custom that he was explaining? Myself, I think this is something that Jesus wanted his followers to do. Of course, it’s forgivable, but what about when Jesus said that whomever that sleeps with this person or even marries this person is considered an Adulterer? I must say, I don’t know how to approach this.
August 24, 2005 at 09:41
I guess my concern is that divorce went from something that was (in most cases) “bad” to something that was just perceived to be “sad”. It’s not about whether it is forgivable, of course it is. But forgivable isn’t really the point.
August 24, 2005 at 10:40
I just have questions…why? what happenned? I know that divorce is just as common among Christians as non-Christians now, why is that? What happened to committment? What happened to staying together because we promised God we would, if for no other reason. Remember Hosea? He was called to love his unfaithful wife just as Christ loves us and never gives up on us. I know we are all sinful, I am foremost of sinners, but do we accept it with “ok, so nobody’s perfect” or do we throw ourselves headfirst into the battle with satan and say, “I am going to do what’s right, God help me!”
August 24, 2005 at 10:49
Divorce means: To be seperate! Any time one or both parties become disattached or seperated from God first and then ultimately the spouse, it will end in divorce. I understand that divorce is a sin ,but if Hosea who represented (Christ) was to be united to his adultress wife which represents the (Church) then who are we to judge God’s infinite plan for Grace and Restoration! No sin is greater than the other. What sin are you committing?
August 24, 2005 at 11:13
If you look at the effect that this one divorce is having on the family members, fans and others, there is no question that divorce is bad. However, in light of all of this, I have to ask myself what my position should be.
The question of “good” and “bad” is settled in the Bible. The issue of forgiveness is strictly God’s domain. So, since it is not my role to judge (the Word of God does that), nor is it mine to condemn or forgive (God Himself does that), my role as a member of the Body of Christ is to both represent and advocate a position that facilitates the healing and restoration that is made available to all of us when we miss the mark.
I don’t know Jaci personally, however, I have seen this matter played out many times before on a much smaller scale. What I have found is that the people around the couple can either help to heal the broken hearts with love and godly compassion or cause further injury with their judgment and criticisms. Also, and I think that this is important in this situation, those of us who have been blessed by Jaci’s ministry have a valuable opportunity to minister to her brokenness and help her to be restored. I don’t know if reconciliation is possible in the situation, but, if it is, they do not need negative pressure from the outside working against them.
I didn’t mention this before, but I think that the church’s atmosphere of judgment sometimes works against the Christian couple. Many times Christian couples do not seek help until it is “too late” because they do not want to expose themselves to the critical eye of many in the church. Again, I don’t know Jaci’s situation, however, if Christian couples were surrounded by an atmosphere of love and compassion, I wonder how many couples would seek help early on and avoid separation and divorce.
Just a thought…
August 24, 2005 at 11:19
I’m with Carl, (Aug 23,1:19pm)and there’s wisdom in a multitude of console! As long as they both understand How our Heavenly Father feels about “D” and it has been brought before the Elders or Pastors of they’re church (because there’s strength in numbers!). Use ALL the avenues that Daddy-God provides, and let he who has not sinned, cast the first stone…The attacks and trials that a man or woman of God go through-relates to their calling. “Higher levels means bigger devils!” Hay now theirs a Novel idea- could that be why our Lord says to “Pray for your leaders; as Christians we can add celebrities to our list of leaders! Hallelujah, yes and Amen!
August 24, 2005 at 11:26
I just hope the centrists don’t automatically condemn her for this. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory. We could also remember Sandi Patti and Charles Stanley. I dont’ think we can condemn Jaci (or any of them for that matter) because they failed. I’m sure Jaci is very sad about the situation, and realizes her position within the Christian community makes everything she does open to a higher degree of scrutiny. We should be praying for healing for both of them, their families and anyone else who will feel the effects.
August 24, 2005 at 11:37
I don’t mean to be cynical (or maybe I do) but should we now expect an album of brokenness and forgiveness songs from Jaci sometime in the future? Or, to be more marketable, I guess it should be hymns. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time a fallen celebrity commercialized their own public “confession” and absolution. Or, would it be too much to ask that Jaci show that she is really serious about this failure, and that she willingly step down off the stage, out of the spotlight, put herself under biblical accountability to a local church, and seek biblical forgiveness and restoration from that body of Christ. Of course divorce is forgiveable! But that is not the only issue here. When an artist has willingly sought and accepted spiritual leadership on a public platform as she has, she incurs a much greater accountability. Divorce, if for any reason other than adultery or desertion, is not only unbiblical and sinful, but when it is a leader it is worse. And it only compounds the failure to “handle” it through the PR department of your label, or with a few press releases, rather than by submission to the only authority God has designed to handle such matters—the local church. OK, I feel sorry for Jaci, but my pity does not absolve her from doing the right thing. I hope we hear that is what she chooses to do, rather than that she is in the studio working on her next release…a “hymns” project.
August 24, 2005 at 13:03
Nathan – English, please!
Sarah – AMEN!
Jackie – Your only “role model” should be Jesus.
It takes two plus God to make the “till death do we part” thing work.
Carl – Check out your heart. Is it love that has motivated your response?
While I agree with some of the points you make,
(ie- But you cannot CARE for someone without CONFRONTING them when in sin. Love without this is not love at all.)
I can not help but wonder your motives.
From my perspective it feels more like anger or even hate.
Don (of August 23rd, 2005 at 4:38 pm) – Is it possible that you do not have a “ministry position” because God has prevented it.
Is it possible that He wants to humble you a bit?
Will you go to Him with this idea:
Outside of the blood of Jesus,
outside of Him in our hearts,
there is
NO DIFFERENCE
between the Christian and the non-Christian.
Jesus said that the world will hate us!
I can not think of a single time Jesus said anything like,
”When the world looks at you they will say to themselves, OOOh, I want to be like them.”
Someone being called by the Father might look at us and say,
“I want what they have.”
What we have is Jesus.
Christians are not different because they do not sin,
but because we have a place to go and be forgiven of our sins, – because the sting of sin – death, has been removed.
WHAT JESUS DID SAY IS,
“By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
The witness we have is not about ourselves, it is about Jesus.
Our witness is not what we do or don’t do,
it is what He did on the cross.
Our witness is not who we are,
but who Jesus is!
Don (not the same Don from 4:38 pm today)
Amen.
Regarding your separation,
I will simply say that if your separation is God’s will then, continue to seek His face on reconciliation.
If it is not His will you will have no peace.
To obey is better than sacrifice.
Rosey – Are you saying that you know for a fact that Jaci has not, nor is not crying out to God?
Are you saying that you know that Jaci is being disobedient to the will of God?
What if she is both crying out and obedient?
Yes, sin has a rippling affect,
but the love of God delivered to us on the cross is infinitely bigger!
Clay –
Jaci appears to be accountable only to herself, and that may be as big a tragedy as the divorce.
Does this mean that you personally know Jaci?
If so then you should:
Galatians 6:1
“spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.”
Just because someone seeks spiritual authority does not mean they have it.
Spiritual authority is given by God,
not taken by people.
Christianity is NOT a culture
(cul·ture n
1.art, music, literature, and related intellectual activities
2.enlightenment and sophistication acquired through education and exposure to the arts
3.the beliefs, customs, practices, and social behavior of a particular nation or people
4.a group of people whose shared beliefs and practices identify the particular place, class, or time to which they belong
5.a particular set of attitudes that characterizes a group of people
6.the growing of biological material, especially plants, microorganisms, or animal tissue, in a nutrient substance in specially controlled conditions for scientific, medical, or commercial purposes
7.biological material, especially plants, microorganisms, or animal tissue, grown in a nutrient substance culture medium in specially controlled conditions for scientific, medical, or commercial purposes
8.the cultivation of the land or soil in preparation for growing crops or plants
9.the development of a skill or expertise through training or education)
Christianity is not defined by what the Christians believe, do, or don’t do,
but BY WHO WE KNOW.
It IS who you know that counts!!!!
Do you KNOW Jesus?
“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.”
Do you know His voice?
John 5:25
Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
John 10:3
To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
John 10:4
And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
John 18:37
Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?” Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”
Hebrews 3:7
[ Be Faithful ] Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: “ Today, if you will hear His voice,
Hebrews 3:6-8 (in Context) Hebrews 3 (Whole Chapter)
Hebrews 3:15
while it is said:“ Today, if you will hear His voice,Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
Hebrews 3:14-16 (in Context) Hebrews 3 (Whole Chapter)
Hebrews 4:7
again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said: “ Today, if you will hear His voice,Do not harden your hearts.”
I am a Christian – a” God chaser” –
CRAZY about Jesus whom came to me and saved me and made me His own.
From the beginning –(a Saul of Tarsus conversion) I have had a deep personal relationship with my Lord and Savior.
I love Him WAY more than my own life. He knows that there is nothing I will not do for HIM!
As a baby Christian, I married a man, Steve, thinking he was a Christian because he was scheduled to go to seminary to become a minister.
IT WAS AN HONEST MISTAKE!!!!
NOT A SIN!!!
I realized less than a year into the marriage that perhaps Steve was not a Christian at all.
I put the thought out of my mind every time it popped up.
I had a gift of faith and I knew that God could do anything He wanted.
I prayed and prayed and prayed for GOD to make our marriage what H e wanted it to be.
I did all the “pious works” you can imagine (and many you can’t) – everything in my power – to have a Godly marriage.
I was married to an alcoholic, rage-aholic, pornography addict, who was and is a practicing ordained minister as well as a legitimate sociopath.
I spent the last 5 years with him on my face, weeping into the floor, “Father God to do WHATEVER is necessary to heal this marriage – to make it right.”
You can quote any part of the scriptures to me on how a wife is to behave and I doubt you will reveal anything that I did not try.
We went to marriage counseling for 6 years.
I learned a lot – about myself as well as Steve.
Hindsight, I see that Steve learned nothing because sociopaths “can not be guilty” and therefore cannot see the truth about themselves.
We had two children.
I knew that this terrible marriage was taking its toll on them.
I saw no way to spare them.
I was sick about my young children: – finding hard-core pornography stashed everywhere, – hearing vulgar curse words shouted from his mouth in every direction, – watching him psychologically, and emotionally abuse their mother while catching a portion of it themselves, – and a myriad of other horrible things that would sicken your soul to know.
No one can ever “get the picture” except my children and I. Even my children, who (naturally) love their father, really could not (can not) see the true picture.
Even I could not (can not) see the true picture, because by heart was one-sided – I wanted my marriage to be healed!!!!
ONLY GOD SEES THE TRUE PIICTURE!!
After 16 years of being dedicated to Steve –to my marriage – I asked him to live somewhere else because we were tired of living in constant fear and strife.
I was seeing a Christian counselor at the time, who agreed because “when two people can not live peaceably together they can be separated.”
It was my most sincere hope that once he was on his own he would come to his senses and cry out to God for help.
I was shocked and devastated when after only three weeks on his own he was in bed with another women and after a fling with a few women he latched on to a codependent female (an unbeliever) who made a fairly good income and could support him.
Yet still, I had the faith that if God wanted we could be reconciled.
Eight months after he left there was a knock at my door.
He filed for divorce!
I sought the Lord and He said to me,
“This is my way. You are my beloved daughter and I have delivered you from this man and his abuses. You are free.”
I wept bitterly on and off for 4 months and then was given the grace to move on.
ONLY GOD KNOWS THE TRUTH!!!!
Once the divorce proceedings began, I was appalled by the condemning and self-righteous way I was treated by those who called themselves Christians!
I rapidly found myself “shunned” as though I had some highly contagious spiritual disease.
I was spiritually branded with the “scarlet D” for divorced.
I found comfort only from my counselor and others who were likewise branded.
Looking back I see that for the most part Christians who are highly critical of the victims of divorce are in one of two groups; single or in a bad marriage.
Carl Says:
August 23rd, 2005 at 1:19 pm
I’m not in the holyness (spelled holiness) movement by any means. But when are Christians going to say the obvious: God hates divorce? HATES. There are only, to my knowledge, eight things God specifically mentions hating.
Carl, are you married?
I spent sixteen years saying, “God hates divorce!”
Of course he does.
But what I did not understand is that there arte things He hates more.
Get to know the God Jesus has reunited you with.
You will discover that he hates way more than eight things.
He hates everything that is evil!
I think that you may be familiar with
Proverbs 6
12 A worthless person, a wicked man,
Walks with a perverse mouth;
13 He winks with his eyes,
He shuffles his feet,
He points with his fingers;
14 Perversity is in his heart,
He devises evil continually,
He sows discord.
15 Therefore his calamity shall come suddenly;
Suddenly he shall be broken without remedy.
16 These six things the LORD hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
Divorce is not listed here.
I believe these 7 things cover it all.
I believe that divorce is the consequence of one, or more of these things present in one, or both of the lives of the victims of divorce.
It takes three people to make a marriage work – husband, wife, and God.
It only takes one person to destroy it!
Those who are ready to condemn divorce victims might ask themselves first if they are guilty of any of the following:
vs13
He points with his fingers;
vs14
He sows discord.
vs17
A proud look,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
vs19
And one who sows discord among brethren.
Yes, we are to restore one-another but here is how:
Galatians 6
1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5 For each one shall bear his own load.
The only people in a position to “restore” a Christian who is overtaken by a trespass is someone who personally is close to the trespasser.
Furthermore it must be God directing the situation, or it will be to no avail.
Psalm 127:1
Unless the LORD builds the house,
They labor in vain who build it;
I have recently been diagnosed with a degenerative, irreversible, disorder. It has been a great equalizer!
I have had a paradigm shift in my perspective.
I am convinced that it is a humble and contrite heart that the Lord desires and that of “faith, hope, and love,” the greatest of these is love.
If you focus on love,
if love is the motive behind restoring the Christian,
if restoring that person is truly your goal,
if you do it from a truly humble heart,
if you do it with the Lords direction,
if you do it in the Lords strength,
if you do it in the Lords timing,
if it is the Lord’s will for you to do it,
then it will NOT be in vain.
What is in our hearts.
Should we ask ourselves why we are angry or sad or whatever?
Should we expose our own hearts to the “Light of the World?”
Is it wise to check our motives before we “point our fingers?”
What is the difference between “restoring” and “casting the first stone?”
The difference is found in the motive.
Is the motive love?
True love can not leave a believer in a trespass – especially a believer that we are close to.
But it is a sacrificial thing to correct someone.
Godly correction is a selfless act.
It must be done in humility.
It must be done in the way that you would have it done to you.
How would Jesus do it?
Have you asked Him?
WWJD.
I have gone to Jesus countless times since I have known Him and asked, “What should I do, Lord? What would please you?”
I can think of no answer He ever gave me that did not begin with love.
DO YOU KNOW JACI PERSONALLY?
IF SO , DO YOU LOVE HER?
Those of you who are ready to set everybody straight,
I challenge you to read ALL of the following verses AFTER you ask Jesus to write them on your heart,
and then, MAYBE, God will use you as an instrument of correction.
1 John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
John 13:33-35 (in Context) John 13 (Whole Chapter)
2 John 13:35
By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
John 13:34-36 (in Context) John 13 (Whole Chapter)
3 John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
John 15:11-13 (in Context) John 15 (Whole Chapter)
4 John 15:17
These things I command you, that you love one another.
John 15:16-18 (in Context) John 15 (Whole Chapter)
5 Romans 12:10
Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another;
Romans 12:9-11 (in Context) Romans 12 (Whole Chapter)
6 Romans 13:8
[ Love Your Neighbor ] Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:7-9 (in Context) Romans 13 (Whole Chapter)
7 Galatians 5:13
For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
Galatians 5:12-14 (in Context) Galatians 5 (Whole Chapter)
8 Ephesians 4:2
with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love,
Ephesians 4:1-3 (in Context) Ephesians 4 (Whole Chapter)
9 1 Thessalonians 3:12
And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you,
1 Thessalonians 3:11-13 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 3 (Whole Chapter)
10 1 Thessalonians 4:9
[ A Brotherly and Orderly Life ] But concerning brotherly love you have no need that I should write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another;
1 Thessalonians 4:8-10 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 4 (Whole Chapter)
11 Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works,
Hebrews 10:23-25 (in Context) Hebrews 10 (Whole Chapter)
12 1 Peter 1:22
[ The Enduring Word ] Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart,
1 Peter 1:21-23 (in Context) 1 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter)
13 1 Peter 3:8
[ Called to Blessing ] Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous;
1 Peter 3:7-9 (in Context) 1 Peter 3 (Whole Chapter)
14 1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent love for one another, for “love will cover a multitude of sins.”
1 Peter 4:7-9 (in Context) 1 Peter 4 (Whole Chapter)
15 1 Peter 5:14
Greet one another with a kiss of love. Peace to you all who are in Christ Jesus. Amen.
1 Peter 5:13-15 (in Context) 1 Peter 5 (Whole Chapter)
16 1 John 3:11
For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,
1 John 3:10-12 (in Context) 1 John 3 (Whole Chapter)
17 1 John 3:23
And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
1 John 3:22-24 (in Context) 1 John 3 (Whole Chapter)
18 1 John 4:7
[ Knowing God Through Love ] Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
1 John 4:6-8 (in Context) 1 John 4 (Whole Chapter)
19 1 John 4:11
Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
1 John 4:10-12 (in Context) 1 John 4 (Whole Chapter)
20 1 John 4:12
[ Seeing God Through Love ] No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
1 John 4:11-13 (in Context) 1 John 4 (Whole Chapter)
21 2 John 1:5
And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another.
2 John 1:4-6 (in Context) 2 John 1 (Whole Chapter)
Let’s ask Jesus to fill our hearts with His love and the let thet love cover a multitude of sins.
Let’s put Jaci and all believers at the foot of the cross and know that Jesus is the author and finisher of us all.
Let’s keep the SON in our eys and heart.
amen
August 24, 2005 at 14:00
‘That reminds me of something Mike Yaconelli said: “It’s not about perfection;...”’
Actually Jesus DOES call us to be perfect, to be complete. And I believe the biggest problem facing the church today is “me-ism”. “I’m an emotional guy, so I’ll try to find a church that speaks to my heart.” “I’m more intellectual, I’d like a church where the emphasis is on doctrine”.
“I’m a genX-er, so I want my worship service to be XYZ…” Can’t we hear the cacophony of consumerism echoing through our sanctuaries. Reformed camps. Emergent camps. Relationally-oriented camps. Doctrinally oriented camps.
Thanks be to God that our Lord and the one to whose image we are being conformed is not Mike Yaconelli, Jeff Archie, Billy Graham, Jaci V. or Amy Grant, or CS Lewis or even the Apostle Paul. We are to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. Whether I like it or not, God is working in me to make me more like Christ. That means I may have to be more “relational” than I might want to be. I may have to be more concerned with “doctrine” than I might otherwise be.
Yes, Jesus calls us where we are, but he does not leave us there.
“A friend of mine told me the other day of a conversation with someone interested in attending our church. She asked what it was like. My friends replied that “we’re a bunch of flawed people who want to learn more about Jesus.””
I’m afraid in our efforts to not offend, we’re selling out the Gospel. We apologize for believing in sin, death and Hell, neuter the Cross of Christ, and try to turn Jesus into some sort of Cosmic Care Bear. “Come to Jesus, he’ll make all your owies better…”
Aside from miraculous healings, there are few if any examples in the New Testament church of people’s “quality of life” improving after becoming a Christian. No one “named it and claimed it”. Paul’s reward in this life for being arguably the greatest apostle were stonings, beatings, hunger, poverty, ridicule, and if church historians are correct, a bloody execution.
Yet he is able to say ” I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.”
Brothers and sisters, there are men and women dying around this world, even as I type this, because they want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection. They don’t want to know “about” him. The want to know him as their risen Lord and savior.
Please, let us all abandon our ‘preferences’ and cling to Christ and his word. Let us think clearly AND love truly. Let us admonish AND encourage. Let us seek forgiveness AND holiness.
Let us never forget that we have been bought for a price.
August 25, 2005 at 00:37
Leslie…
I am sorry for your pain, and I hope you find healing, I really do. However, this post is not the place for you to dump all of your strongly felt emotions into a blog discussion. You have effectively shut off all honest comment about this issue, not because you’ve got it all right biblically (there’s a whole bunch of proof-texting in your post), but simply because it’s now about you. How can anyone possibly question someone whose “experience” is so strong and overwhelming? Perhaps you should ask which was speaking more loudly—your emotions, or your spirit. The former is not wrong, but it needs to be controlled and restrained by the latter.
Jaci is a public figure by choice, and her divorce is an issue that the body can and should discuss. If it were a local church matter, it would stay there, but it’s not. She chose to make a public statement, apparently independent of any local church body, that was directed to her fan base. In other words, she literally publicized her divorce to the “culture” that she has helped create. She did not go to the press as a Christian, but as a Christian celebrity. And yes, Leslie, there most definitely IS an extra-biblical Christian culture in American life that is built around Christian celebrities and artists. We need to talk about the impact of that culture and determine how to respond to those who assume “leadership” in it and represent Christianity, especially when they fail in some way, whether it involves sin or not. It’s not about juding Jaci, but about discerning how to respond biblically to a movement that has great potential to bless, but I fear even greater to harm and mislead.
You can wield your terrible experience as a kind of self-righteous big stick (sorry, but that how it feels to me), or you can offer legitimate insight into a phenomenon of American Christianity that threatens to turn biblical truth into celebrity sound bites and publicity spin. It’s about a lot more than just judging Jaci. I’m sorry she happens to be the flash point today, but it will be someone else tomorrow. If the church doesn’t find its voice about this, it will eventually cede its influence over the coming generation to whoever can sell the most records.
August 25, 2005 at 09:57
Well Leslie August 24th, 2005 at 1:03 pm
Thank You. Christians stop being judgemental. God is the judge.
A careful examination of youself may reveal that you need as much forgiveness, healing and the rest of it as much as the other person.
Bless don’t stress.
August 26, 2005 at 08:30
I just wanted to say to anyone interested that i have come accross hundreds of pictures of Jackie that someone has disposed of. I dont know if they are of value to anyone besides Jackie. Maybe someone will read this and notify her. It must have been an old photographer or something. They are beautiful pictures and if I was her I might be interested in recovering them. I was not introduced to Jackie till I found these, but there are so many i had to check into this.
Today is Fri. Aug. 26, 2005. My E-mail is marc@getfastleads.com please feel free to contact me. I am also saddened by any divorce that was sanctified by our LORD.
GOD BLESS
August 29, 2005 at 19:39
Leslie—Whatever?
Don
August 29, 2005 at 19:40
Leslie—
Whatever?
Don
August 30, 2005 at 08:47
The divorce rate is so obscenely high in “evangelical America” that we seem to hardly care in the Church. In truth…it is probably the biggest crisis facing the Church and the apathy is shameful!!! Although I appreciate what Christian leaders like James Dobson is doing politically to stem the tide of marital breakdowns in the Church, I wish it would become the #1 priority of every Christian ministry, outside of preaching the Gospel!
August 30, 2005 at 09:57
Um… isn’t discussing a personal matter of someone else called gossip? Is this a gossip blog? Can we attach paprazzi photos as well?
Divorce is a sin and it’s a huge matter to discuss, but the divorce of a specific couple should not be discussed by thirds’. If you want to discuss if divorce is a sin or not… fine. But I think it’s proper and more pleasing to God to keep specific individuals and cases out it. Besides everyone stands and falls before His own Lord.
I hope and pray God unites all christian couples again and brings His Love toward Him and Holy Fear in all Christians heart so they obbey His Word in all things. If a christian couple is more in-love with their Lord than anyone else, including eachother, then their marriage is BOUND to work. If at least one of them is not so crash hot about God, then things are dangerous. The Bible is full of advice on how to have a successfull mariage… if only we all had the faith and humility to submit to it with joy. The husband has guidelines as also the wife… if each stick up to their obligations according to God then His blessing is granted! In the Christian life it is all a matter of devotion to God and faith in His word. Then all unfortunate circumstances are avoided.
September 2, 2005 at 17:44
Some critical thoughts here…
1.) GOD is divorced: When discussing divorce and “divorced” people, we would do well to keep in mind that the Holy GOD who instituted marriage is, Himself, divorced. In Jer. 3:8 GOD announces that He “sent her [Israel] away with a decree of divorce.”
2.) Malachi 2:16 has been the subject of great textual mistranslation and misinterpretation. Many continue to quote this verse as: “I hate divorce says the Lord God of Israel”. This is a sloppy way of translating the Hebrew, which reads literally:
...or, as the Holman Christian Standard Bible translation states…
The word “hates” is in third person form, which means “he hates” not “I hate”, thus God is not doing the hating, but the man who “covers himself with violence” by hating and divorcing his wife (for obviously unjustified reasons). This is a touchy verse for translators, where manuscript evidence sparks much debate. Worse, the political consequences of the more accurate translation also (sadly) play a role in whether or not translators go with the old mistransaltion or the better-understood and more literal translation.
Now when correcting this, many will pull and old trick call false dichotomy to try to make it sound like I’m saying that God must therefore like divorce. I’m not saying that, and such a assertion would be absurd and Biblically untenable on the face of it. However, as modern translations (using more comprehensive manuscript evidence) note, the “I hate divorce” statement isn’t really true to the most likely rendering of the text.
3.) Biblically-justified divorce can the “best” solution because it preserves the sanctity of marriage. While wanting to sound pious and holy, some try to say, “Well, OK” Again, since filing for (justified) divorce is something that GOD did Himself, it’s impossible to Biblically state that divorce is never “best” unless you believe that GOD didn’t do the best possible thing. Rather, we see that like any other consequence of breaking a covenant, the consequences of the violation preserve the covenant. All Biblical covenants have consequences for violating them, and marriage is no different. When the terms of marriage are violated (e.g., adultery), then GOD’s consequence (divorce) protects the innocent and preserves the integrity of the institution by cutting off the violators (just as God did with Adam, Israel, etc.).
We do not know the circumstances of Jaci’s divorce, who file, or precisely why. If adultery was the reason, she isn’t saying it. But she (and we) need to realize that she has chosen for herself a very visible position before a lost generation, and she therefore does owe some sort of explanation for the situation—especially if she’s the one who filed.
September 2, 2005 at 17:48
Sorry for the fomatting mess above. Point 3 should read: 3.) Biblically-justified divorce can the “best” solution because it preserves the sanctity of marriage. While wanting to sound pious and holy, some try to say, “Well, OK but divorce is never ‘God’s best’ option.” Again, since filing for (justified) divorce is something that GOD did Himself, it’s impossible to Biblically state that divorce is never “best” unless you believe that GOD didn’t do the best possible thing. Rather, we see that like any other consequence of breaking a covenant, the consequences of the violation preserve the covenant. All Biblical covenants have consequences for violating them, and marriage is no different. When the terms of marriage are violated (e.g., adultery), then GOD’s consequence (divorce) protects the innocent and preserves the integrity of the institution by cutting off the violators (just as God did with Adam, Israel, etc.).
September 29, 2005 at 02:41
its wrong to divorce (mathew 19:3-12) but God forgives and its between her and God.
September 30, 2005 at 02:53
“How (or will) this be different compared to when it happened to Amy Grant in 1999? A lot in society and the Christian subculture has changed since then. Will people (especially radio and retail) be more understanding?”
I have to be honest. Every time I see the promo for Amy Grant’s new upcoming TV show, I keep thinking, “she’s an adulteress.” That’s because in Scripture it says that if a woman gets divorced and remarries, she is committing adultery. (Mark 10:12) Amy Grant got divorced and then got remarried (to another man). According to the word of God, that’s adultery. Does that sound harsh? Yes, it does. But that’s what Scripture says. If you really believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God and that Christ is Lord of all, you don’t get to pick and choose what you believe. (At least not when it comes to things that are pretty much straightforward.)
Now I’m sure a lot of people are probably going to start complaining about how judgemental I am being about all this. (Have you ever noticed how angry and judgemental people can be when they accuse other people of being judgemental?) But I am merely presenting what the word of God clearly states. If not for the Scriptures, I’d have no problem with remarriage. I sympathize with people who are divorced and Biblically should not remarry. It must be a most emotionally difficult and lonely position to be in. But marriage is not everything there is to life.
Right now, the divorce rate among Christians is about the same as that of the rest of society. (Some have said that it is even higher.) Would it be possible that this would be different if the church actually took a stand and taught what the Scriptures say on this issue? Maybe if there was no easy possibility of remarriage, people might think a lot harder before getting divorced, or better yet, getting married in the first place. You think people might be more careful about picking a life partner if the remarriage option was taken off the table? You bet some of them would. And the Christian divorce rate would go down.
Sorry that this is slightly off the topic. But you mentioned Amy Grant in the original post, and this is an issue that God has been bringing to my attention of late.
October 7, 2005 at 01:55
I have only just learned that Jaci is married only to now learn that she’s divorced. I am also one who thinks highly of Jaci Velasquez. I love her music. I have read Jaci’s biography and it is unfortunate that this could happen to a committed Christian like her. It brings home the reality that Stars are prone to mistakes just like us, because they are human beings just like us. What makes it so disappointing is that she’s a Christian, and I would think her husband is too, and just like Evangelists, Gospel Singers minister to people too – in song. So there are alot of people who hold them in high esteem.
Now we can say – which the Bible indicates and which I totally stand for – that Christians are not supposed to fall into a situation of contemplating divorce, but we don’t know the circumstances surrounding Jaci’s divorce, so we cannot be judgmental. Afterall, the Bible also states that on the basis of sexual immorality (adultery) would divorce be permitted. Yes, there should always be room for forgiveness, but we still don’t know the circumstances.
I also totally believe that Christians who divorce shouldn’t remarry and i’m pretty much disappointed to hear that Amy Grant remarried. It’s enough to have been divorced, but to remarry, it’s not right. It shows how people who profess to be Christians are taking the Word of God for granted and no longer taking God at His Word.
I’m really sorry to hear about Jaci’s divorce and for the type of Christian I understand her to be, i’m sure she had a good reason. When all is said and done, it’s between her and Jesus Christ.
Saturday, October 15, 2005 is Jaci Velasquez’s Birthday. I pray that she celebrates a wonderful birthday. May God continue to bless her richly so long as she stays committed to Jesus Christ.
October 11, 2005 at 13:42
Read your Bible, folks:
1) God is DIVORCED. Jer. 3:8 states this clearly (I dare you to go read it). Therefore, anyone who says “it’s wrong to divorce” is accusing God of wrong-doing (sin).
2) In the Bible, remarriage is permitted after a Scripturally justified divorce. There are acceptable reasons for divorce (Matt 5, 1 Cor 7, etc.) and there are unacceptable reasons. Many here need to learn that distinction.
3) As for remarriage, again, go back to the Bible: God, having divorced his former wife Israel for adultery (Jer 3:8), is now preparing a wedding feast for his new bride, the church, bought with his blood.
You people are making too many sweeping Biblical statements without the Scriptural perspective to back it up… then you’re applying those false teachings to judge one another—doubling the trouble in this discussion.
As a Christian, Jaci does owe an account of her actions as to whether her divorce was Biblically justified. But in any case, WE most certainly will stand before the judgment seat of Christ and give an account of how much grace we have shown Jaci, Amy, and our neighbors given how much grace we have been shown by God in Christ Jesus.
October 16, 2005 at 15:39
I UNDERSTAND THAT IS IS NOT BIBICAL TO GET A DEVIVORCED! BUT SHE CAN SHE CAN BE FORGIVEN!
GOD LOVES ALL OF US INSPITE OF OUR FLOWES!
TRY TO LOOK A THE PERSPECTIVE OF JACI VELASQUEZ TOO AND NOT YOUR OWN! I PERSONALLY LOVE JACI VELASQUEZ SHE IS A GREAT PERSON AND LEARNS FROM HER MISTAKES TOO JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE!
SHE IT IS BETTER TO FORGIVE! THE BIBLE DOES SAY TO FORGIVE BECAUSE IF YOU DONT THEN SORRY BUT YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE AT JUDGEMENT DAY!
GOD BLESS EVERYONE THAT HAS GRACE TO FORGIVE AND THAT GOD WILL HELP BOTH JACI AND HER HUSBAND TOO!
I HOPE BOTH OF THEM WILL FIND SOMEONE TO BE IN THERE LIFE WHO GOD SENDS THEM THAT WAY THEY WILL STAY TOGETHER !